That sounds impressive. How do we stack up against the fish, though?
Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans
71–80 of 447 posts
Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
One day, whilst eating a burger in a pub and thinking about the food chain, I ran a thought experiment in my head. I imagined being hungry and someone offering me a choice between a ham sandwich or a vegan sandwich. I could only select the ham sandwich if I was willing to shoot a pig in the head. I wouldn’t have to butcher the pig or anything else, just be responsible for its death. I decided that I would choose the…
>It would require having 3 to 4 protein shakes a day or doing lots of cooking and prep. All the natural vegan protein sources outside of protein shakes weren’t lean; they also contained lots of carbs or fats. This made hitting macros hard. A large number of Indian people are vegetarian (plants + poultry eggs + cow/goat milk), and I've never heard of them having such problems. Why? I certainly didn't have any dietary…
It's because the grandparent comment has misconceptions about nutrition, including that animal products are necessary for a healthful diet and how much protein is required for a healthful diet.
The first misconception is contradicted by extensive analysis by health organizations such as [Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics][1]. Healthful vegan diets are no less healthful than healthful non-vegan diets.
The second misconception is about how much protein is needed in a healthful diet. Many people wildly overestimate how much protein a person needs, especially when strength training. It is not difficult to get sufficient protein within a given calorie budget while on a vegan diet, even without using protein supplements. For instance, tofu and seitan have protein to calorie ratios similar to meat, with seitan often having a higher protein to calorie ratio than most meats.
Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans
#73Lets take in mind that there is a problem to compare two groups when one group is much easier to measure than the other. The error interval in the mammal biomass should be much higher. The actual real values are probably not so extreme. ... I see, is just megafauna. The most competitive groups (rodents and bats) are deliberately excluded. The title is incorrect then.
Also, “biomass” is a strange term. Is that literally an estimate of mass? Or count of individuals? Many other context lacking as well. This is clearly written for the 96% statistic shock, not to inform anyone.
Biomass is the whole mass of life beings, a standard and common measure that represents the energy contained in a particular group.
Talking in terms of biomass is very common in Ecology.
Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans
#74Lets take in mind that there is a problem to compare two groups when one group is much easier to measure than the other. The error interval in the mammal biomass should be much higher. The actual real values are probably not so extreme. ... I see, is just megafauna. The most competitive groups (rodents and bats) are deliberately excluded. The title is incorrect then.
Also, “biomass” is a strange term. Is that literally an estimate of mass? Or count of individuals? Many other context lacking as well. This is clearly written for the 96% statistic shock, not to inform anyone.
No post body was provided.
Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Walk around and pick up a random rock. On average it’s 5% iron which combined with just a little carbon makes steel, so no we aren’t running out. This is also why the Iron Age was such a big deal. The bronze age required both copper and tin which where rare and didn’t generally show up near each other while you could operate a shitty iron mine just about anywhere.
Is there a reason the Bronze Age had to precede the Iron Age? At least in the Mediterranean, the only continuous civilisation I’m aware of was Egypt.
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Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
One day, whilst eating a burger in a pub and thinking about the food chain, I ran a thought experiment in my head. I imagined being hungry and someone offering me a choice between a ham sandwich or a vegan sandwich. I could only select the ham sandwich if I was willing to shoot a pig in the head. I wouldn’t have to butcher the pig or anything else, just be responsible for its death. I decided that I would choose the…
>It would require having 3 to 4 protein shakes a day or doing lots of cooking and prep. All the natural vegan protein sources outside of protein shakes weren’t lean; they also contained lots of carbs or fats. This made hitting macros hard. A large number of Indian people are vegetarian (plants + poultry eggs + cow/goat milk), and I've never heard of them having such problems. Why? I certainly didn't have any dietary…
If you're body building or doing serious exercise, it can be hard to get the protein your body needs to recover and build muscle on a strictly vegan diet. I've tried it and it's difficult.
Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans
#77Devastatingly sad. Are plant-based meat replacements and lab-grown meat going to help fix this?
One day, whilst eating a burger in a pub and thinking about the food chain, I ran a thought experiment in my head. I imagined being hungry and someone offering me a choice between a ham sandwich or a vegan sandwich. I could only select the ham sandwich if I was willing to shoot a pig in the head. I wouldn’t have to butcher the pig or anything else, just be responsible for its death. I decided that I would choose the…
>There is just too much social resistance to overcome.
We're really only on the second wave of veganism right now. I can't say exactly when the first wave "ended", but I'd say the second wave started to roll in after 2010. But in this second wave, there is a lot of culture being developed that I believe will sustain a third wave. Whereas the first wave had a bunch of early adopters who had very odd food habits (i.e. eating barely palatable food or eating 50 bananas a day), this second wave is developing new food culture. There are large communities like the Vegan Soul Food Group. Groups like this share recipes and tips for making vegan food and, frankly, it's damn good. Not everything is the best nutritionally, but that's not why everyone is adopting veganism in the first place. There are also high profile chefs (and burgeoning chefs too) who are coming on the scene. Gaz Oakley, Yeung Man, Andrew Bernard, Vegan Bunny Chef. There are all sorts of accounts on tiktok with culturally-specific vegan foods - Mexican, Indian, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Ghanaian. Not to mention all of the "accidentally vegan" foods that already existed before.
These people are leading the way to a vibrant vegan food culture. They're developing new traditions and practices right before our very eyes. And a lot of people are joining in as a result. The younger generation is much less obsessed with this sort of "tradition perfectionism" where every element has to be there to make it a tradition. They were much more willing to change and adapt traditions to fit their own personal and moral beliefs.
The third wave, I think, is going to come as a result of what you're talking about. We have some great things like nut-based cheese, but also on the horizon (beyond meat ;) are things like vegan casein and whey, which will make it even easier to be vegan. At that point, the third wave will be as if people were never vegan in the first place.
Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
Walk around and pick up a random rock. On average it’s 5% iron which combined with just a little carbon makes steel, so no we aren’t running out. This is also why the Iron Age was such a big deal. The bronze age required both copper and tin which where rare and didn’t generally show up near each other while you could operate a shitty iron mine just about anywhere.
Is there a reason the Bronze Age had to precede the Iron Age? At least in the Mediterranean, the only continuous civilisation I’m aware of was Egypt.
AFAIK Africans, that is, the Bantu and related West African peoples, went directly from Neolithic to Iron Age, skipping Bronze.
For Mediterranean, it's mainly because the whole region, Iraq, and Northwest India/Pakistan were already integrated together as a trading unit, with factors coming hp from Sumer and Assyria to trade with Dilmun, Indus Valley, and Anatolia. Then the Phoenicians traded tin from Iberia and all the way from Britain as well.
Funnily enough, Egypt only adopted bronze (and chariot) at least for their armies after the whole Hyksos invasion stuffs. That might be the basis for Exodus.
Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans
#79I can't be the only one who is extremely tired of these semi-frequent utterly nihilistic "I'm sad to be part of the human species, we're killing the planet" posts and comments, especially when the posts themselves are possibly misleading (whales aren't included? come on ). I don't know about you but I'm quite happy to be alive and reasonably healthy, and I hope to have many children, I hope mankind doesn't go extinct…
It's more a factor of dislocated moral feelings. If you decide humans aren't special, then you can go one of two ways with the moral feelings you had towards humanity: you can broaden them to a larger category that you still think is special, such as mammals, animals, all living things, etc, or you can narrow them down to some arbitrary set that you happen to be fond of, like your family, your friends, or yourself. B…
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Re: Wild mammal biomass has declined by 85% since the rise of humans
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It would require having 3 to 4 protein shakes a day or doing lots of cooking and prep. All the natural vegan protein sources outside of protein shakes weren’t lean; they also contained lots of carbs or fats. This made hitting macros hard. A large number of Indian people are vegetarian (plants + poultry eggs + cow/goat milk), and I've never heard of them having such problems. Why? I certainly didn't have any dietary…
It's because the grandparent comment has misconceptions about nutrition, including that animal products are necessary for a healthful diet and how much protein is required for a healthful diet. The first misconception is contradicted by extensive analysis by health organizations such as [Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics][1]. Healthful vegan diets are no less healthful than healthful non-vegan diets. The second misc…
Go and have a look at the amino acid profiles of seitan and tofu and also their bioavailability in comparison to meat and vegetarian protein sources. And you can talk all you want about people overestimating protein macro but 1 to 2 grams per lb of bodyweight has consistently shown to be optimal. You’ll be hard pressed to find any high performing athlete who isn’t aiming for that outside of endurance sports.
At the end of the day in my experience, a vegan diet is both a lot more hard work and less healthy than a non vegan one. Saying that a vegan diet isn’t any less healthy than a meat eating or vegetarian one is an absolute joke, especially considering there are no vegan foods containing vitamin B12 outside of yeast flakes and artificial supplements.