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Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

spectrum.ieee.org

21–30 of 397 posts

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#21

Because the amount of places where dams could be built to produce electricity is quite limited, and most of them are already in use. So hydroelectric power is fine, but there is no way to significantly increase amount of it. Edit: I was wrong, see https://web.archive.org/web/20170329132409/http://www.iea.or...

Is this indeed the case, even for smaller, localized dams? Would be interesting to see a comprehensive study on this (if one has been done).

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#22

Vaclav Smil gets hyped up as one of the smartest men on the planet, but apparently he can't google up the downsides of Hydro? Or is he 'just asking questions' to continue undermining solar PV and wind. Yes, yes he is.

For what it's worth;

Included among Smil's admirers is Microsoft co-founder Bill Gates, who has read all of Smil's 36 books. "I wait for new Smil books the way some people wait for the next Star Wars movie," Gates wrote in 2017.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaclav_Smil

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#23
post #3

It's not very green at all. It's known to kill large swaths of the ecosystem. The true green yet unfashionable energy source is nuclear fission.

That's pretty much it. The environmental objections to nuclear fission are in the same genre as objections to hydroelectric dams, but hard to compare. You pay the environmental impact of the dam upfront, in the form of ecosystem disruption by the reservoir. I'm not sure that nuclear fuel mining is worse than building a reservoir in a desert (e.g. Lake Mead), long term, to say nothing of nuclear waste storage/disposal. To be sure, power production by a wind or solar facility is at least proportional to acreage, but either of those don't entirely remove habitat.

This feels more like a hit piece that amounts to "your 'green' energy sources aren't so green, hypocrites". Specifically:

"This ennoblement is strange, given that wind projects require enormous quantities of embodied energy in the form of steel for towers, plastics for blades, and concrete for foundations. The manufacture of solar panels involves the environmental costs from mining, waste disposal, and carbon emissions."

As if the earthworks and concrete of major dams, the steel and plastic of the generation stations didn't count.

The author also ignores the justification for building megastructures on rivers in the western US (or Africa, or China, or ...): they are in deserts, so the flow (and therefore the power generation) are especially sensitive to the natural drought cycle. Build a small dam on a small river, then deal with the consequences of no power when the river runs dry every fall. Or, dam a big river, which requires a big reservoir, and only deal with drought-driven power outages when you hit the 50 or 100 year drought.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#24

I spent a couple years on a motorbike traveling all through Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos (15k+ kms). Water mostly flows from the north (China) to the south in that region. The Mekong River. China and Vietnam have dammed up nearly all of the large rivers in those three countries, for hydro. There are countless projects constantly being built as well. The scale is pretty epic really. Vietnam has some of the largest numbe…

Properly managed hydro should help prevent flooding, which I imagine is incredibly valuable in an area with annual monsoon season. It's not like overflowing reservoirs are adding water to the watershed, it just means they don't yet have the in built capacity or were mismanaged, ie monsoon season arrived without sufficient capacity to absorb it, to prevent the natural flooding that was already occurring.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#25
post #9

"Green", if you exclude absolute sacrifice of an entire downstream ecosystem.

Yeah, no - I definitely do exclude claims of THE ABSOLUTE, TOTAL, AND COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF CATEGORICALLY EVERYTHING DOWNSTREAM.

Especially given that it's a centuries-old technology, installed upstream of many (perhaps "most"?) things, and yet THE ENTIRE DOWNSTREAM ECOSYSTEM (which, since all streams lead to ABSOLUTE SACRIFICE AND TOTAL DESTRUCTION), is THE ABSOLUTE ANNIHILATION OF EVERY ECOSYSTEM.

Do I need to download a new copy of TehScienceConsensus.pdf again? What page did you get this from?

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#26
post #9

"Green", if you exclude absolute sacrifice of an entire downstream ecosystem.

Downstream actually sees benefits from a dam, since the output of the river remains unnaturally constant even during periods of drought.

The immediate upstream from a dam, however, is another story entirely.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#27

Hydro isn't unfashionable. We just don't have reasonable places to keep daming, so there's little really to talk about. Nuclear is unfashionable, because there's huge growth potential among wealthy industrial countries, but because it's not "liked" there's very little actual growth.

This is the answer, if there were places we could generate a lot of hydro power we already would be.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#28

Green?!? Dams in my home state are being removed to great applause and rejoicing. Restoring fisheries and natural habitats destroyed by reckless dam building in the last century is a growing priority.

Sure, it's destructive. But as long as humans continue to consume more energy, there's a need to balance that with the much greater destructive effect of greenhouse gases. It's about the lesser of evils.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#29

Green?!? Dams in my home state are being removed to great applause and rejoicing. Restoring fisheries and natural habitats destroyed by reckless dam building in the last century is a growing priority.

Stupid little dams built as make-work are being removed. Hydroelectric dams are not being removed.

Re: Why is hydroelectricity unfashionable?

#30
post #4

The Banqiao Dam failure [0] came to my mind the moment I read the title. The amount of deaths that single failure caused may have something to do with that. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1975_Banqiao_Dam_failure

Truthfully nobody's really heard of the Bangqiao Dam failure. I doubt this contributes to the discourse.
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