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Vim After 15 Years (2017)

blog.langworth.com

51–60 of 116 posts

Re: Vim After 15 Years (2017)

#51
post #9

It's alway pretty fascinating to me that people can actually be productive without an IDE. I've tried several times Vim and I just don't get it how you can live without certain functionalities, I'm sure that with enough tinkering you can get pretty close but, for example, search seems to always be kind of a pain in the ass for the complex queries with regex through many files and stuff like that, specially the presen…

vim, grep, and find. git-grep turns your codebase into a O(logn) database

Re: Vim After 15 Years (2017)

#52
post #9

It's alway pretty fascinating to me that people can actually be productive without an IDE. I've tried several times Vim and I just don't get it how you can live without certain functionalities, I'm sure that with enough tinkering you can get pretty close but, for example, search seems to always be kind of a pain in the ass for the complex queries with regex through many files and stuff like that, specially the presen…

There's a steep learning curve, and it's not necessary. I mainly use Vim, but it wouldn't be a big deal if I didn't.

Reasons for me:

- It's a lot more laptop-friendly not having to deal with a mouse and complex GUI. I even gave up my desk at work and just sit and code in random places.

- On my desk at home, it's a bit faster for me than an IDE. But that depends.

- Seems like IDE users are constantly switching tools, especially when changing jobs. Even at my current 4-year job, my teammates have all changed between 3 different IDEs and had to screw around with remote access problems for each. I've used Vim everywhere since college.

Re: Vim After 15 Years (2017)

#53
post #29

Author here. Many will be disappointed to know that I've been using VS Code almost exclusively since 2019 (with the Vim plugin of course). I've been meaning to write a follow-up article, but unfortunately writing is low on the priority list. The main reason is that these days, when I _am_ coding, I mostly write TypeScript and React on my local machine (not much SSH these days), and VS Code Just Works™. I tried twice…

[deleted]

Re: Vim After 15 Years (2017)

#54
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, I just switched from vs code BACK to (neo)vim. For me the killer feature of vscode was remote, but imagine my surprise to see that was one of many proprietary things in the platform. And then I discovered mutagen, and that opened up my avenue for thinking about neovim again. The neovim lsp story with lspzero is as pain free as I can imagine things to be, so that also helps. In this day and age for the la…

I get that. I used to get pretty far with tmux and using Vim to send commands to other tmux panes. But now with web-based tools, live reloading, and utils that watch the filesystem to re-run things, the terminal-inside-an-IDE approach seems fine because I don't need to switch to it as often.

So Emacs is going to be your next move? /s

Re: Vim After 15 Years (2017)

#55
This is the list of features (in Eclipse) that I'd like to use in Vim:

- Show in Breadcrumb to show the package name > class > function in the top of the editor

- Open Call Hierarchy to show all places where a class/variable is used.

- Show Type Hierarchy to show how a given class is derived from Object.

- Debug Shell for running snippets in the debugger.

I know that I can use grep or ag for some of them, but I rather prefer to see the hierarchy as shown in Eclipse.

Re: Vim After 15 Years (2017)

#56
post #18

This seems to hold pretty well. I've been using vim for approximately 15 years now too and my current setup and preferences are surprisingly similar to those in this post. There is a certain organizational aspect here that I think is important to emphasize: the given paradigm is that vim is a text editor forming one part of the design environment. Assembling this environment inside a tmux session is particularly easy…

I’d say that vim will never be an IDE as such, because the focus is on personal configuration. Personal Development Environment is how one of the neovim contributors is half rebranding it. The things that make modern IDEs good (like LSP) at all available but you get to shape them how you want, rather than being forced into your IDE of choices way of doing things. (I imagine from your comment that you are probably awa…

Personally I think Vim has been an IDE for at least 10-15 years now. You could argue for a long time about the exact definitions of "IDE" and "editor", but Vim can do compile-cycle, completion, finding identifiers, file browsing, spelling checking, terminal window, debugger, scripting, and a bunch of other stuff out of the box, without plugins.

It certainly does these things different than your average IDE. Again, you could argue for a long time about what is or isn't an "IDE", but merely "editor" really does injustice to some of the more advanced features in Vim because it can do so much more than just "edit text", and "IDE" certainly seems a lot better of a fit than "editor".

Re: Vim After 15 Years (2017)

#57
post #54
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that. I used to get pretty far with tmux and using Vim to send commands to other tmux panes. But now with web-based tools, live reloading, and utils that watch the filesystem to re-run things, the terminal-inside-an-IDE approach seems fine because I don't need to switch to it as often.

So Emacs is going to be your next move? /s

I used Emacs from 2010-2012 just to know what I was missing. I liked using it and tinkering with it, but when it came to being productive, all of the tooling felt out of date and hard to use in comparison to Vim.

I said then that if someone would make a text editor and IDE that used JavaScript from the ground up instead of elisp, that it would dominate, and that's what seems to have happened with VS Code.

Re: Vim After 15 Years (2017)

#58
post #9

It's alway pretty fascinating to me that people can actually be productive without an IDE. I've tried several times Vim and I just don't get it how you can live without certain functionalities, I'm sure that with enough tinkering you can get pretty close but, for example, search seems to always be kind of a pain in the ass for the complex queries with regex through many files and stuff like that, specially the presen…

Its more of a focus thing for me. Its easier to get into the zone when I'm in a terminal with no mouse and all the GUI noise stripped away.

I'm sure I'm missing out on quality of life enhancements and whatnot, but really all of those are lower on my hierarchy of needs than staying on task.

Re: Vim After 15 Years (2017)

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel pretty much the opposite. IDE's seem incredibly limiting and feature-poor compared to editors like vim and emacs, which can do just about anything. Regarding your specific examples, both vim and emacs have file histories and if your files are under version control it's easy to get diffs. Searches are super powerful in both vim and emacs, and it's easy to search across multiple files as well using various scrip…

Worth noting that debuggers, which frequently have complex interfaces, are generally much better suited to GUI applications. Having a good debugger integrated with my code editor is basically the reason I use an IDE instead of vim. Stuff like Vimspector exist but are way more work to use vs. a GUI equivalent.

If your debugger implements the DAP protocol then Neovim is currently capable of a just-as-good debugging experience in my opinion.

The sole exception in my opinion is remote debugging (it’s not too bad, but JetBrains really bootstraps this part very well).

Re: Vim After 15 Years (2017)

#60
post #9

It's alway pretty fascinating to me that people can actually be productive without an IDE. I've tried several times Vim and I just don't get it how you can live without certain functionalities, I'm sure that with enough tinkering you can get pretty close but, for example, search seems to always be kind of a pain in the ass for the complex queries with regex through many files and stuff like that, specially the presen…

Just my 2 cents on this > I don't quite remember something and having the internal file history with a diff readily available. You're already in a terminal, git is just one command away > Some of the click and find implementation/usages never seems to quite there to me. This really depends on the language you are working in, but generally vim's gd (and plugins that augment it) enough most of the time, otherwise grep/…

> Here's the thing, the best part about it vim is that it is not slow (plus paired with a terminal emulator like kitty/wez/alacritty). When I type the characters actually appear on the screen as I type them.

I just noticed that ~/.vimrc adds a small delay, even if it is empty. This is the test case:

Create a file with about 10 emtpy lines and type:

    esc                 switch to normal mode
    gg                  go to the top
    ctrl + v, G         select all lines
    shift + i           switch to insert mode
    - line              just type something
    esc                 this will duplicate the first line until the end of the file
If you repeat the test case with no ~/.vimrc, you will notice that the lines are changed faster.
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