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Microsoft team submits Redis patch to enable Windows support

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Re: Microsoft team submits Redis patch to enable Windows support

#91

Post by unwind »

j_baker wrote: post #20
jrockway wrote: post #3

Embrace, extend, extinguish. Does Redis still do that thing where it forks and the child writes its core to disk? How does that work under Windows, which doesn't have fork? Finally, this is one big patch: 339 files changed, 146821 insertions(+), 290 deletions(-) With many of the changes along the lines of: static void *callbackValDup(void *privdata, const void *src) { - ((void) privdata); redisCallback *dup = malloc(…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but casting the result of malloc is generally considered bad form in C, isn't it?

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/605845/do-i-cast-the-resu... is a good place to start for a deeper discussion of this topic, if someone is interested.

My answer (obviously) is "yes", although as some folks point out here too, there are portability concerns that make it worth it sometimes.

Re: Microsoft team submits Redis patch to enable Windows support

#92

Post by 18pfsmt »

skrebbel wrote: post #90
nitrogen wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...nearly any office-scale printer you can buy runs Windows... I'm positive I've read about multi-function office copier/printers that run Linux, but none of my search queries on Google and DDG yielded anything useful. I just got a bunch of pages of people asking for drivers.

oh, i'm sure they exist. there's no reason why a printer can't run linux. It's just that when most high end printers got UIs (mid to late 90s), Windows was the only decent dependable, supplier-backed option available, really. And since then the software evolved and thus stayed Windows-specific. Similar reasons for why most other industrial / high-end professional devices run Windows. Effectively, Microsoft has locked…

Hmm. Most of the multifunction, networked printers I've had to deal with in small business offices run NetBSD. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen one that runs Windows. Of course, my experience is limited to only ~9 offices, but I just assumed they were all like that.

Re: Microsoft team submits Redis patch to enable Windows support

#93

Post by beagle3 »

jroseattle wrote: post #77
beagle3 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft has made a good gesture When on the other hand they are poisoning the Android/Linux ecosystem with FUD, patent extortion and the like. While I would prefer the discussion to stay civil and technical, Microsoft is consistently earning every snark they are receiving, and then some.

Don't confuse Microsoft's teams with the flatulating buttheads in the executive office. Most of the people working there now weren't around when MS was a dominant company.

1) MS is still a dominant company

2) The people working there are _taking orders_ from the executive office. You can be completely sure, especially in Microsoft, that this was cleared with the executive and legal time before anything was uploaded (not doing so is grounds for termination), and you can be quite sure that even if this is an "grass-root" initiative inside microsoft, it was discussed and authorized with management before the 3rd hour was spent.

More likely, someone in sales asked a customer "Why are you using Linux here instead of Windows?" and the response was "We need Redis" - prompting this work.

Re: Microsoft team submits Redis patch to enable Windows support

#94

Post by beagle3 »

skrebbel wrote: post #85
antirez wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The patch provided does not handle persistence correctly (saving blocks), does not make tests passing. The "libuv" part was the trivial part, already solved by the community, see the unofficial win32/win64 port that fixed it natively, with less code. So nice to see Microsoft contributing code to Redis, but this is not a production ready port and is practically equivalent to what we already had made by the community.…

> Also, what is the point on having a production quality Redis server on Windows? I (co-)run a small bootstrapped startup running on a Windows server. We're considering to use Redis as our primary (only) database. For us, the simple ability to run Redis and our main C# application on the same box, in the beginning, would be a big plus. It simply saves a server, and unifies our production environment to a single OS. O…

First, to address your concern: You can just run your C# code on Linux, rather than Redis on Windows. Mono really is that good (unlike the Windows Posix subsystem, which -- had microsoft cared to maintain, would have been able to run Redis!), and cross platform requests go both ways. You'd also save money on server licenses.

I'm feeling like I need to get my karma downvoted today :)

I'm kind of amazed by responses from yourself and yread below.

You guys are paying Microsoft for the privilege of using their products. Microsoft is actively working to harm competitors such as Android, Linux, and (antirez's dev platform IIRC) OS/X every other day. It has actively worked to undermine the free software community (of which Redis is a product) for a long time, calling GPL "a cancer" (yes, I know redis is BSD), financing the frivolous SCO vs. Novell law suit, loading ISO committees against the Open Document Format, threatening VirtualDub with a patent lawsuit, and a hundred other similar things.

You are not paying antirez, but are getting an excellent product and service for free (the cost being taking 30 minutes of your time to run redis in vm! Really! Try! I set up Linux vms in linux for testing all the time).

And yet, when antirez says "meh, not interested, it goes against my focus", you call his response "bubble filtered" or (other posters) "immature".

An Upton Sinclair quote is extremely relevant here: "It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!"

edit: AviDemux -> VirtualDub (misremembered)

Re: Microsoft team submits Redis patch to enable Windows support

#95

Post by beagle3 »

yread wrote: post #88
skrebbel wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, what is the point on having a production quality Redis server on Windows? I (co-)run a small bootstrapped startup running on a Windows server. We're considering to use Redis as our primary (only) database. For us, the simple ability to run Redis and our main C# application on the same box, in the beginning, would be a big plus. It simply saves a server, and unifies our production environment to a single OS. O…

I'm coming from a very similar position (corun small bootstrapped startup running on windows server, outside the valley). In fact, my position is even worse, I want my software to run on my customer's servers. That's why the attitude shocked me. Anyway, antirez wrote a blog post explaining his position in a level-headed and reasonable tone: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3333298 And it is indeed his call what to…

Read my comment here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3334150 (and downvote it :) if we can infer anything from the downvote statistics in this thread)

> That's why the attitude shocked me.

Is your customer paying you? (I assume yes) Are you paying Antirez? (I assume no) Why is that attitude shocking you? You are paying Microsoft, and the only reason they want Redis to run on windows is so that you'll keep paying them. Not some grand "Oh redis is nice, we really want to support it".

> It is just a bit sad that there is this MS divide

And Microsoft is entirely to blame for it.

And cut the "Microsoft is a big company, don't treat it homogenously" bullsh@t. Barack Obama can't deport a us citizen he doesn't like (or at least couldn't until last week). Steve Ballmer can (and does) fire MS employees that are not aligned with his vision. There might be the occasional local initiatives that look nice -- but Microsoft is an enemy of free software.

Re: Microsoft team submits Redis patch to enable Windows support

#96

Post by skrebbel »

beagle3 wrote: post #94
skrebbel wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, what is the point on having a production quality Redis server on Windows? I (co-)run a small bootstrapped startup running on a Windows server. We're considering to use Redis as our primary (only) database. For us, the simple ability to run Redis and our main C# application on the same box, in the beginning, would be a big plus. It simply saves a server, and unifies our production environment to a single OS. O…

First, to address your concern: You can just run your C# code on Linux, rather than Redis on Windows. Mono really is that good (unlike the Windows Posix subsystem, which -- had microsoft cared to maintain, would have been able to run Redis!), and cross platform requests go both ways. You'd also save money on server licenses. I'm feeling like I need to get my karma downvoted today :) I'm kind of amazed by responses fr…

I'm sorry, but I'm really not interested in the whole Linux vs Microsoft flamewar. It feels a bit last century, and, well, I doubt we'll be able to change each other's minds here.

Some small responses to some other points you made, though:

> And yet, when antirez says "meh, not interested, it goes against my focus", you call his response "bubble filtered"

Thanks for pulling me out of context. I also said, twice even, that it's his fair choice and I just wanted to give him a different point of view that maybe he's underexposed to. We're all in a filter bubble. Considering "you're bubble filtered" an insult feels a bit, well, naive to me.

> You guys are paying* Microsoft for the privilege of using their products. *

I'd pay for a Redis version on Windows.

> You can just run your C# code on Linux, rather than Redis on Windows. Mono really is that good.

I'd love to believe that, and in fact I'm absolutely baffled how non-sucky Mono really is given how little support it has gotten from both corporations (MS included) and the rest of the open source community ("yuck, Microsoft!"). It's really awesome, all the work they did there. However with the tech we're using (such as, for example, parts of .NET 4's Entity Framework), I doubt we'll be able to move to Mono soon.

Re: Microsoft team submits Redis patch to enable Windows support

#97

Post by beagle3 »

skrebbel wrote: post #96
beagle3 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, to address your concern: You can just run your C# code on Linux, rather than Redis on Windows. Mono really is that good (unlike the Windows Posix subsystem, which -- had microsoft cared to maintain, would have been able to run Redis!), and cross platform requests go both ways. You'd also save money on server licenses. I'm feeling like I need to get my karma downvoted today :) I'm kind of amazed by responses fr…

I'm sorry, but I'm really not interested in the whole Linux vs Microsoft flamewar. It feels a bit last century, and, well, I doubt we'll be able to change each other's minds here. Some small responses to some other points you made, though: > And yet, when antirez says "meh, not interested, it goes against my focus", you call his response "bubble filtered" Thanks for pulling me out of context. I also said, twice even,…

> I'm sorry, but I'm really not interested in the whole Linux vs Microsoft flamewar.

Oh, how I wish it was a flamewar. You sir, are apparently willingly ignorant. I have listed many cases where Microsoft have actively harmed projects and community processes. Actions with documented, measurable economic harm. It does not become a flamewar just because you are not interested.

This is a business war. I consider the side you support (by virtue of paying them) unethical. If Microsoft "won" the war on free software earlier, e.g. SCO managed to discredit Linux to the point of no one using it, Redis would likely not have happened the way it did.

> I doubt we'll be able to change each other's minds here.

Agreed.

> Thanks for pulling me out of context.

I don't think I was pulling you out of context. The rest of your statement is basically "you're entitled to be bubble filtered". But his response was considerate, detailed, to the point, and certainly NOT ignoring the reality.

> "you're bubble filtered" an insult feels a bit, well, naive to me.

I understand it to mean "you're unaware because of the way you live your (professional) life". It isn't necessarily an insult, but it implies ignorance -- whereas antirez demonstrated the opposite. It's just out of line at that point of the discussion.

> I'd pay for a Redis version on Windows.

Make antirez an offer then, it might be worth his while if many people do that. If you don't have the cash (I'm running a startup myself, I know how that is), you can offer equity.

> However with the tech we're using (such as, for example, parts of .NET 4's Entity Framework), I doubt we'll be able to move to Mono soon.

Cool. Don't be surprised that your choice of platform and tools, e.g. the latest-and-greatest .NET 4 Entity Framework, limits your access to other tools, e.g. redis. Life is a tradeoff.

Re: Microsoft team submits Redis patch to enable Windows support

#98

Post by beagle3 »

chimeracoder wrote: post #48
beagle3 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Microsoft has made a good gesture When on the other hand they are poisoning the Android/Linux ecosystem with FUD, patent extortion and the like. While I would prefer the discussion to stay civil and technical, Microsoft is consistently earning every snark they are receiving, and then some.

They might be doing other things you don't like, but at least give credit where credit is due. Submitting code upstream to Redis is completely independent of their patent decisions regarding Android. I'm not a fan of their overall stance with respect to FOSS/Linux/Android, and they may be earning the snark there, but not in this case. These discussions become a lot more valuable when we stop characterizing any organi…

Missed this first time I commented:

> Submitting code upstream to Redis is completely independent of their patent decisions regarding Android. I'm not a fan of their overall stance with respect to FOSS/Linux/Android, and they may be earning the snark there, but not in this case.

Wrong. They are both cleared by the same legal department, guided by the same company vision. They are not being a useful member of the community. They're trying to give people less reason to leave Windows. Pure self interest, completely in line with everything else they do.

Re: Microsoft team submits Redis patch to enable Windows support

#99

Post by skrebbel »

beagle3 wrote: post #97
skrebbel wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but I'm really not interested in the whole Linux vs Microsoft flamewar. It feels a bit last century, and, well, I doubt we'll be able to change each other's minds here. Some small responses to some other points you made, though: > And yet, when antirez says "meh, not interested, it goes against my focus", you call his response "bubble filtered" Thanks for pulling me out of context. I also said, twice even,…

> I'm sorry, but I'm really not interested in the whole Linux vs Microsoft flamewar. Oh, how I wish it was a flamewar. You sir, are apparently willingly ignorant. I have listed many cases where Microsoft have actively harmed projects and community processes. Actions with documented, measurable economic harm. It does not become a flamewar just because you are not interested. This is a business war. I consider the side…

> You sir, are apparently willingly ignorant.

Hm yeah, it appears I am. I think you're actually right about that.

Have you come to this thread to bash anyone who "admits" to using Microsoft software? It feels like that to me.

I don't consider buying software from Microsoft to be "choosing a side", just like I don't consider buying Apple products to be choosing a side in the child labor wars, just like I don't consider buying a chocolate bar means I choose the side against slavery in Africa. If you're as hard-line as you demand, everybody becomes a hypocrite.

> Cool. Don't be surprised that your choice of platform and tools, e.g. the latest-and-greatest .NET 4 Entity Framework, limits your access to other tools, e.g. redis. Life is a tradeoff.

Completely true! Did I ever say anything to the contrary?

There's a big difference between "There are valid use cases for Redis on Windows" and "I demand that Antirez port Redis to Windows, now, for free". I really only made the former point, but I have the feeling that you're passionately ranting against the latter.

Re: Microsoft team submits Redis patch to enable Windows support

#100

Post by [deleted] »

tantalor wrote: post #36
js2 wrote: post #21

[Edited for tone which I guess is the reason for the down votes. I appreciate the quick response below.] Most of this patch is adding libuv, which is included in its entirety due to "the version included in the patch is different than the one available on github, some changes have been added to the code". There is also a lot of cleanup. Also a small nit, in the patch instructions: git checkout 3fac86ff1d git checkout…

> 1. cloned redis > 2. cloned libuv Of course you mean "fork", not "clone".

[deleted]
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