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Passkeys.io – A Passkey Authentication Demo

passkeys.io

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Re: Passkeys.io – A Passkey Authentication Demo

#51

I'm a bit confused with WebAuthn/Passkeys/Fido If I have a single hardware key/tpm/yubikey/iphone/etc - can you create multiple users on one site? And can they tell that you're the same user? Or are you now locked to just a single user for your phone/macbook/yubikey/whatnot? Also if multiple services colluded (or integrated with say GA) - can they (or at least GA) all tell that you're using the same hardware key acro…

Yep!

As a user registering an authenticator with a typical site, the authenticator creates a public/private key pair and returns the public portion. Using it later tells the site it is the same authenticator as last time, without options to release much more information than the batch of authenticators it was manufactured in.

So if you register _again_, perhaps as a different user, all the site would see is that they have two users with 'Early 2021' Yubikeys. Even this level of identification still requires the site to request attestations, which the user has the option to reject.

My demo sites may have pages of users from dummy accounts, if I don't periodically clean them up. The site has no way (official or heuristics-based) to know these are all from the same person or same piece of hardware. Different sites also wouldn't see that you were the same.

The authentication and registration flows also require some act of user consent (such as tapping a key) to release _any_ information at all - you can't find out ahead of time that the user has a credential registered. This also makes sense when you think about ones which communicate transiently - my phone might not know that I authenticate with NFC until I tap that security key against the reader.

What's allowed behind the scenes can muddy this up a bit, so I'll list that out too:

1. Sites can provide a list of registered credentials to try to keep you from registering the same authenticator twice under a single account. This works as a filter during the consent process, but the browser doesn't know if say these were across multiple accounts. If a small site provided the entire list it would block you from registering the same security key against multiple accounts - but the site wouldn't know it was successful in doing so.

2. In addition to the classic second-factor mode (where the site provides all the credentials it would honor for authentication) there is a _discoverable_ mode, used by passkeys, where the site simply says "what you got" to use as a first factor. These take up storage. So some keys may have limited storage and not want to support multiple passkeys for a single website at all.

3. There is a feature called Enterprise Attestation where your system policy (or policy on a pre-provisioned security key) may report its serial number to white-listed sites. I consider this more a problem with privacy impacts with managed devices in general, and many platforms don't support that feature at all. I believe pre-provisioned security keys must wipe out any such policy on factory reset, but that would likely then limit your ability to use that key to access corporate resources.

Authenticators and clients can certainly abuse your trust and break your privacy assumptions. The platforms are generally acting as clients and limiting access for other software to act as clients to prevent correlation attacks and phishing attacks. They use API access to limit what a website or native app can request.

These clients may also block-list authenticator features or whole authenticators which do not meet their published requirements.

Re: Passkeys.io – A Passkey Authentication Demo

#53

Any idea how are Password Managers, such as 1Password/Bitwarden/Keepass, thinking of integrating or competing or co-living with Passkeys? I can live with something like 1Password but my wife and kids will be more suited and happier with Passkeys.

We will try to support it (and I'm aware of similar work by some of our competitors)

https://www.theverge.com/2022/8/31/23329373/dashlane-passkey...

Re: Passkeys.io – A Passkey Authentication Demo

#54

It asked for my email address, which I provided. Then it said there was no account for that email address, and asked if I would like to create an account. I said yes. Then it said I was logged in. Huh? I didn't have to verify anything.

If emails are being treated as usernames, in a real world usage, they should be verified. But beyond that, no verification is necessary.

Re: Passkeys.io – A Passkey Authentication Demo

#56
post #6

> passkeys are way more secure and are easier to use than both passwords and all current 2-factor authentication methods Perhaps I'm naive, but how are passkeys "way more secure" than "all current 2-factor authentication methods"? Don't many security keys (e.g. Yubikey) also require that you are in possession of the physical yubikey? I'm using that as a 2-factor authentication method. Why is a passkey more secure? Up…

I think it protects against someone getting the 2fa code. Passkey talks to the website directly

Re: Passkeys.io – A Passkey Authentication Demo

#57

Tried entering my email. Fail 1 - doesn't allow autofill. Then tried signing in. "Enter the passcode that was sent to ." Fail 2 - no passcode was ever sent. (Yes, I tried the resend button multiple times, because I'm not a moron. Yes, I checked my spam folder, because I'm not a moron. I know the HN crowd would have taken great pleasure in explaining the obvious to me if I hadn't mentioned it.) Even if that had worked…

The email and passcode is part of the site registration flow for this particular site (e.g. registration requires a verified email address). Other demo sites like webauthn.io do not attempt to add a 'real' registration flow.

My guess is that a demo app was pummeled a bit and fell behind on the email verification queue.

That aside, only the part where you register a new credential (e.g. the browser/OS modal dialog) in that registration process is using passkeys.

Re: Passkeys.io – A Passkey Authentication Demo

#58

A few things I don't understand: 1) How can I share the fingerprint keys between chrome and safari? 2) How do I share keys between different types of devices? (mac, ios, android, windows) 3) What happens if my devices are gone? 4) What happens if I want to change my login (email to a new email for example)? 5) Is account recovery handled simply by a reset-email? 6) It seems a validation step of the email is missing?

1. I don't believe you can, but I could be wrong.

2. Apple does this using Keychain (iCloud), but that's limited to Safari in iOS/iPadOS/macOS.

3. I assume would be treated as any other MFA option; if you lose your auth code generator with no backups, you're SOL. With Apple, you can setup what they call a contact recovery, which lets a trusted contact be a point of recovery for your account.

4. I don't believe this is an issue specific to Passkeys.

5. Account recovery isn't really necessary, unless you hit up against point 3, in which case it's about recovering your ability to use the passkey and not so much the account.

6. If emails are being treated as usernames, they absolutely should be validated.

Re: Passkeys.io – A Passkey Authentication Demo

#59

Does anyone knows if 'passweys' will be implemented in open source password managers like BitWarden or KeyPassX, etc. ? Or do we need to rely on Apple/Microsoft/Google for this to work?

1Password and Dashlane have web extensions which replace any integrated browser support with their own UX and functionality. I do not know the current release state of those extensions.

I personally hope there is more of an 'officially supported' integration in the future with the various browsers and platforms. "Passkey managers" need to be able to integrate with native applications just as well as they do with web apps inside browsers. The fall-back of 'I'll just copy and paste the password over' won't work if the credential isn't text.

Re: Passkeys.io – A Passkey Authentication Demo

#60

A few things I don't understand: 1) How can I share the fingerprint keys between chrome and safari? 2) How do I share keys between different types of devices? (mac, ios, android, windows) 3) What happens if my devices are gone? 4) What happens if I want to change my login (email to a new email for example)? 5) Is account recovery handled simply by a reset-email? 6) It seems a validation step of the email is missing?

1. I don't believe you can, but I could be wrong. 2. Apple does this using Keychain (iCloud), but that's limited to Safari in iOS/iPadOS/macOS. 3. I assume would be treated as any other MFA option; if you lose your auth code generator with no backups, you're SOL. With Apple, you can setup what they call a contact recovery, which lets a trusted contact be a point of recovery for your account. 4. I don't believe this i…

> Account recovery isn't really necessary,

Unless you want to switch from Safari to Chrome, I guess?

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