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What “work” looks like

blog.jim-nielsen.com

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Re: What “work” looks like

#171

Post by MetaWhirledPeas »

crazygringo wrote: post #152

This is one of the most absurd, black-and-white things I've ever read. Does innovation come from running, showering, lying in bed? Absolutely, no question. But at the same time, when you get a diverse group of people to solve particular problems, they generally come up with far better solutions than any one of them would have on their own. Because these are really about two totally different types of problems. The fi…

> The obvious answer is that both are valuable. The idea that they are somehow at odds, or that only the first one is "work", is ludicrous. It's true that "individual contributor" jobs often fall more into the first category. But to denigrate the second category as "not work" is both disrespectful and, frankly, just idiotic.

But let's be honest. Most mantras try to force all work into the "group collaboration" bucket. If HR and other management-training groups value isolated work and individual contributions they sure don't show it. Literally every piece of training I've received about working effectively has been about collaboration.*

I think that's because most work training material is not really about innovation or productivity at all; it's about avoiding HR gaffes and workplace conflict.

*Don't get me wrong; collaboration is a superpower, and many ineffective work relationships I've observed were hampered by someone's inability to collaborate well.

Re: What “work” looks like

#172

Post by mxuribe »

mmcgaha wrote: post #139
mxuribe wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "...Not to mention that teams snitches on me if I am away from my computer for five minutes..." When you said "teams", did you mean the Microsoft Teams app, or like your actual co-workers? Because if its your co-workers; damn, sorry to state it, but that's pretty toxic environment.

Sorry I should have said Microsoft Teams.

Whew, that's a relief!

And, er, um...If your workplace does not lock down the computer too much, you may want to look up "mouse jiggler" or mouse mover" to help keep the Teams snitch at bay. ;-)

Re: What “work” looks like

#173

Post by Test0129 »

sph wrote: post #126
gman83 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was drinking whiskey for breakfast I'd probably need to take a nap in the afternoon as well.

If you were not drinking coffee, perhaps you might as well. I wonder if our cultural addiction with caffeine, an effective sleep inhibitor, is the reason why napping and siestas feels so weird and exotic to our modern minds. "Oh you're from Italy? I heard they take lunchtime naps over there." Sadly only my grandma had such a luxury. Everybody else chugs coffee and is expected to work 9-18 without pause, like the rest…

I drink plenty of coffee and still take naps. Its hard for people to remember these days but the "lazy nappers" meme started during the industrial revolution. We've only had a 40 hour week, for example, for a (relatively) small amount of time here in America.

Re: What “work” looks like

#174

Post by yamtaddle »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #74
nonrandomstring wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The topic of bullshit jobs has been overhyped. I think that's true and it's a shame Graeber's choice of language basically offends. Who wants to hear that their job is "bullshit"? And let's face it, sometimes we feel good name-calling all those people whose work we don't understand. Unfortunately that over-hyping subtracts from real and serious questions about why we're burning resources (human and material) doing…

> it's a shame Graeber's choice of language basically offends. Who wants to hear that their job is "bullshit"? A very large number of people who already believe that about their job.

Indeed, the core of the book is built on interviews with people who self-report that their jobs are bullshit. Graeber goes on to cover some systemically-bullshit jobs (largely escalating zero-sum games like advertising or the military—"we had to spend more because the other guy spent more, so the status quo is preserved") but all the stuff about ordinary jobs at ordinary companies that are bullshit come from surveys and interviews.

All I can figure is people who bristle at the term or at the notion that there might indeed be a whole lot of bullshit jobs haven't had a very broad set of work experience, and run in a social circle that's very similar to them. It seems impossible not to notice, otherwise.

Re: What “work” looks like

#175

Post by gausswho »

Test0129 wrote: post #173
sph wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were not drinking coffee, perhaps you might as well. I wonder if our cultural addiction with caffeine, an effective sleep inhibitor, is the reason why napping and siestas feels so weird and exotic to our modern minds. "Oh you're from Italy? I heard they take lunchtime naps over there." Sadly only my grandma had such a luxury. Everybody else chugs coffee and is expected to work 9-18 without pause, like the rest…

I drink plenty of coffee and still take naps. Its hard for people to remember these days but the "lazy nappers" meme started during the industrial revolution. We've only had a 40 hour week, for example, for a (relatively) small amount of time here in America.

Do the majority of American workers even cap at 40?

Re: What “work” looks like

#176

Post by foobarian »

mellavora wrote: post #80
Test0129 wrote: post #16

I've had more ideas come to me after hiding in my office to take a nap than sitting at my desk. It got to be such a gold mine of solutions that I still to this day allocate 30 minutes of my day to a nap. Non-negotiable. So many hard problems that have been brought to me, or complicated needs for architecture, etc were solved by simply turning my active brain off. When I was in graduate school I'd regularly get stuck…

Churchill also saw the value of the nap: “Nature has not intended mankind to work from eight in the morning until midnight without that refreshment of blessed oblivion which, even if it only lasts twenty minutes, is sufficient to renew all the vital forces… Don’t think you will be doing less work because you sleep during the day. That’s a foolish notion held by people who have no imaginations. You will be able to acc…

> from eight in the morning until midnight

Somehow that doesn't make me feel much better

Re: What “work” looks like

#177

Post by Test0129 »

quickthrower2 wrote: post #41
Test0129 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that at all. If you're salary the company quite literally owns you, every thought no matter how inconsequential, etc. I can see how that could be a problem for hourly. It's really about control. You give the appearance of work to appease the PHB who signs your paycheck. You know, after plenty of experience, the person who appears to be the hardest worker is often times the least likely to be put on…

company quite literally owns you. yes, modulo the actual law

If you dont believe it I encourage you to try to start your own company while working somewhere else. You'll be mired in legal nonsense so deep you wont even be able to see clearly. When you become an employee you sign just about every right away you have to anything you do, ever, while working for the company. NDAs, Non-Competes, Invention Agreements, etc.

Sure, the company can't avoid paying you. But in exchange they get 2/3 of your waking life for 30-40 years and 100% of your production. Some companies are better, some are worse. All of them have lawyers that, should you cross them, will make you regret everything. I am at a relatively relaxed company (compared to FAANGs) and even here I had to go through a ton of channels and sign paperwork to even begin work on an open source project.

Re: What “work” looks like

#178

Post by uglygoblin »

hinkley wrote: post #153
jayde2767 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know the castration of ideas in the "Everything-is-an-Emergency" company culture. If you're not careful, it will condition you to delay work because the next "emergency" and shift in priority is imminent.

I kept my sanity at one place by working on refactoring every moment there wasn’t an emergency. I was trying to make all the changes easier. But that was after having tried several other solutions, including the dreaded Infinite Configurability, which has to be the absolutely best way to punish most of the team for how clever two or three of them are. I’m working at a place like that now and it’s been an eye roller.…

I empathize deeply with you. I have been dealing with a system of "infinite configurability" for the last couple years and it's playing out the same way. The best I've been able to do is slowly codify the most problematic corners and put guard rails as many places as possible.

Sometimes I want to put my hands up in defeat and leave but there is also a satisfaction and growth from simplifying the Rube Goldberg machine.

It still sucks though.

Re: What “work” looks like

#179

Post by seti0Cha »

scruple wrote: post #150
sph wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were not drinking coffee, perhaps you might as well. I wonder if our cultural addiction with caffeine, an effective sleep inhibitor, is the reason why napping and siestas feels so weird and exotic to our modern minds. "Oh you're from Italy? I heard they take lunchtime naps over there." Sadly only my grandma had such a luxury. Everybody else chugs coffee and is expected to work 9-18 without pause, like the rest…

Aren't the Italians known for their coffee?

From what I've seen, Italian coffee consumption is nothing like American coffee consumption. They don't sip at enormous cups of drip coffee while working, but instead quickly drink small amounts of espresso as a break. It seems to me that leads both to less caffeine consumption and more actual enjoyment of the beverage.

Re: What “work” looks like

#180

Post by willturman »

Test0129 wrote: post #16

I've had more ideas come to me after hiding in my office to take a nap than sitting at my desk. It got to be such a gold mine of solutions that I still to this day allocate 30 minutes of my day to a nap. Non-negotiable. So many hard problems that have been brought to me, or complicated needs for architecture, etc were solved by simply turning my active brain off. When I was in graduate school I'd regularly get stuck…

Hammock Driven Development by Rich Hickey [1] is a presentation that dives into why taking a step back from the immediacy of a problem often leads to clarity.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f84n5oFoZBc

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