WhatsApp goes down for users globally • Hacker News Board

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#171

Post by rglullis » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 2:05 PM UTC

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #168

rglullis wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> your shoulds They are not mine. It's not my data that is being mined and it's not my business that can disappear if WhatsApp goes offline. Yeah, I'm fully aware that people generally don't care about any of that. Lots of people also don't care about their eating habits, the effects of their economic actions, etc, etc. But if they don't want to face the bad consequences of their choices, they should .

Just as FOSS should produce high quality, usable, popular, free software. But it doesn't. Your shoulds look an awful lot like a tribal affectation which the FOSS community uses to exclude non-technical users. It doesn't matter if the exclusion is conscious (I suspect it isn't) or deliberate (likewise.) The point is the exclusion happens. Self-evidently and empirically. Outside of the technical community FOSS might as…

> which the FOSS community uses to exclude non-technical users.

Sorry, that is bullshit. Any FOSS enthusiast will gladly help other people, when there is a clear path to make the change. When I told my friends and family "I am not going to use WhatsApp anymore, but there is this program that we use instead", I went to help all of them that were interested. I didn't force them to choose between Element or WhatsApp, I just said "here is one alternative."

> Just as FOSS should produce high quality, usable, popular, free software.

I can bet FOSS beats proprietary solutions on any class on a dollar-per-unit-of-quality and even dollar-per-user-acquired metric.

> If you actually want people to use FOSS you need to stop shoulding potential users and start making software that satisfies their needs in obvious and delightful ways.

Everyone wants an unicorn. No one wants to pay for it. If we want developers to work on FOSS projects, we need to foment a marketplace that rewards FOSS developers.

"Oh, but I don't care about FOSS. I care about getting things done, or less inconveniences, etc"

Fine, then enjoy your shit sandwich that is called "Big Tech".

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#172

Post by gausswho » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 2:07 PM UTC

asim wrote: post #165

ddevault wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, my criticisms of Matrix are that it puts usability (or at least UI/UX) before the technical details.

The project was founded in 2014. It was heavily focused on building a federated protocol before there was anything related to end usability. Maybe they've just flubbed the implementation and done a poor job of it, I don't know. I can tell you from the external perspective it's not doing a great job at anything technical or end UX. WhatsApp nailed distribution, Signal does privacy well, Telegram is simple and scalable…

I'm a fan of Matrix but am inclined to agree. In 2018 I looked at the Riot (Element) codebase with a hope to contribute to improving the client. In my estimation, the interfaces and data structures were bonkers convoluted and the maintainers gave dire warnings about how all of them were subject to radical change. I put my attention elsewhere.

I wish they'd focused on building a messenger first, rather than trying to be a Slack/Teams/Discord. That said, it's taken a while but the Element client is dramatically better now. It still doesn't have the polish of other messengers, but I'm rooting for them to dial that in.

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#173

Post by IndySun » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 2:09 PM UTC

zeitlupe wrote: post #63

chagaif wrote: post #26

Time to talk about matrix.org and Element not Signal and definitely not Telegram...

Why not Signal?

Signal uses your own (working) mobile/cell phone number, isn't that why/enough for Signal to be a no? It is for me.

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#174

Post by j3th9n » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 2:11 PM UTC

Aachen wrote: post #52

euroderf wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ham radio operators practice disaster ops, don't they ? How about indie email providers ?

Stubborn self hoster reporting for duty

same

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#175

Post by jdlyga » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 2:21 PM UTC

I'm amazed people still use WhatsApp. We mostly abandoned it in the United States back in the mid 2010's. I mostly use it with friends over in european countries, just like I do with people in China with WeChat.

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#176

Post by plibither8 » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 2:23 PM UTC

jonnybgood wrote: post #148

sneak wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhatsApp is end to end encrypted and AFAIK now has encrypted backups. iMessage intentionally preserves a backdoor in its crypto so that the FBI can read approximately every iMessage sent/received without a warrant, should they so desire.

> iMessage intentionally preserves a backdoor in its crypto so that the FBI can read approximately every iMessage sent/received without a warrant, should they so desire. Would be great if you provide a source for that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

Might not be the best "source", but there's clear evidence of it being done in the past.

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#177

Post by rglullis » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 2:23 PM UTC

KMnO4 wrote: post #166

Spacemolte wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think he means you, or the users that needs this, but instead that it is possible to do if they are open source.

The point is that “it’s open source” is a really bad selling point when you’re talking about a messaging tool meant to be used by everyone. Good luck trying to convince the general population that “the UX is bad but theoretically anyone can improve it” is better than what you get out of the box with other messengers.

You don't need to convince "the general population" to switch. You don't even need to convince anyone to "switch".

Just do the change yourself. Help those people close to you to install Element alongside whatever they are using now. Even if just because they are using to talk with you, it's better than nothing.

You don't get to migrate things that are on huge network effects in one go. But we can help the growth of one network organically until it reaches critical mass.

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#178

Post by coolca » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 2:25 PM UTC

jdlyga wrote: post #175

I'm amazed people still use WhatsApp. We mostly abandoned it in the United States back in the mid 2010's. I mostly use it with friends over in european countries, just like I do with people in China with WeChat.

How do you message with non iPhone users? SMS is very limited in function.

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#179

Post by petesergeant » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 2:26 PM UTC

jdlyga wrote: post #175

I'm amazed people still use WhatsApp. We mostly abandoned it in the United States back in the mid 2010's. I mostly use it with friends over in european countries, just like I do with people in China with WeChat.

Here in Dubai, life runs on WhatsApp.

Re: WhatsApp goes down for users globally

#180

Post by galleywest200 » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 2:26 PM UTC

coolca wrote: post #178

jdlyga wrote: post #175

I'm amazed people still use WhatsApp. We mostly abandoned it in the United States back in the mid 2010's. I mostly use it with friends over in european countries, just like I do with people in China with WeChat.

How do you message with non iPhone users? SMS is very limited in function.

Signal, Telegram, Discord, etc. Tons of options besides iMessage.