I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal • Hacker News Board

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#251

Post by jhugo » Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 4:41 AM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #203

jhugo wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems really high based on my UK experience. The link says "the average mobile connection sent 51 messages per month". What does it mean for a "connection" to send messages? Could that include messages sent to the user? If so, this number would make sense (OTPs and spam).

It's the only comment in a long and pointless Europe-does-this/no-it-doesn't that has found any statistics at all, so I think it's reasonable to accept it, unless much more detailed statistics can be found.

I absolutely accept that the statistic is probably a true number of something, it's just unclear from the wording what the something is.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#252

Post by miroljub » Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 9:13 AM UTC

Semaphor wrote: post #247

miroljub wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I remember that, although EU regulation was in effect, I still couldn't keep my number when switching from O2 to Tchibo (O2 reseller) because O2 did not allow that "for technical reasons".

I looked it up, the regulation was in effect since about 2006, but there was a loophole: It didn’t trigger if you switched from one provider to the same provider. And I guess that still counts when you switch from a reseller. That part has been changed later.

Thanks for the info. Good to know for the next time. Although, at the time they didn't say "we don't let you keep your number because we don't have to" but blamed it on "technical reasons".

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#253

Post by Dagonfly » Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 9:57 AM UTC

luckylion wrote: post #155

claudedopplr wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Wow"? That's two messages per day. Or just one single long conversation with somoenoe per month, like organizing a dinner and going back and forth around a subject a few times. Wow, it's really dead.

Granted, I'm not in the UK, but Germany's market is somewhat similar regarding pricing etc. Not even my mother uses SMS, most people use either WhatsApp or Telegram, with some Threema and Signal mixed in. Apparently Germany has ~8bn SMS for 160m contracts (don't ask me why there's an average of two contracts per person), which is like 50 a year. Edit: that number seems to include automated messages.

Apparently, after removing M2M-SIMs (smart-home, card-terminals, etc.) you end up with 107m active SIM cards.

That seems reasonable: Company-issued phones, LTE-Routers, some undercounting of M2M, and gerneral churn (I changed provider so I had 2 SIM-cards this year).

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#254

Post by izacus » Fri, Oct 21, 2022, 2:14 PM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #221

phh wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you'd say "not even Verizon". Verizon is literally the worst carrier worldwide (ok maybe after NTT) with regards to interoperability.

I think they're saying that the two biggest US carriers didn't want to interoperate. Which is insane. An SMS replacement where Verizon and AT&T users cannot message each other is insane.

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant - if those two couldn't connect their systems, who can?

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#255

Post by Handytinge » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 1:49 PM UTC

apexalpha wrote: post #20

I think you're forgetting the main reason: the group of people using it to communicate is really small and shrinking every year. The only large group of people who still primarily use SMS to communicate person-to-person is Android users in the USA. Every other country has settled on either Telegram, WeChat, WhatsApp or FB Messenger, or other niche apps. These apps work on both iOS and Android and often also Windows.…

> Every other country has settled on either Telegram, WeChat, WhatsApp or FB Messenger, or other niche apps. These apps work on both iOS and Android and often also Windows. I haven't sent an SMS in probably 12 years. I don't know anyone who has.

This is a big call. I live in a country where SMS is still standard. Most communication with friends and family is done by it.

Can you please provide a source?

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#256

Post by Handytinge » Tue, Oct 25, 2022, 1:51 PM UTC

brational wrote: post #208

sillyfluke wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit weird for the "I don't use it so who cares" view to take a firm hold here. SMS is: 1. not controlled by a single company 2. a different network than the internet 3. a fail safe for people who don't use apps or are unable to at a given time for some reason (inc 2fa) 4. a fail safe for a "small group of people" who are suffering the consequences of a natural disaster. Though perhaps not economically feasible for…

And totally readable and accessible by any third party

Can you please explain how you or any other third party (beyond my phone provider) can read my SMS at will?

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#257

Post by 6jQhWNYh » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 7:08 PM UTC

modo_mario wrote: post #22

apexalpha wrote: post #20

I think you're forgetting the main reason: the group of people using it to communicate is really small and shrinking every year. The only large group of people who still primarily use SMS to communicate person-to-person is Android users in the USA. Every other country has settled on either Telegram, WeChat, WhatsApp or FB Messenger, or other niche apps. These apps work on both iOS and Android and often also Windows.…

SMS is still rather common here in Europe. Even if a ton of people use whatsapp and such SMS is often a safe option to initiate with or something trough which you get certain kinds of automated messages like appointment reminders or verification codes.

I concur, SMS is DEFINITELY still common in Europe. Removing support for SMS would mean all of family will stop using the app now, this is completely silly and US-centric...

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#258

Post by 6jQhWNYh » Sun, Oct 30, 2022, 7:09 PM UTC

pkorzeniewski wrote: post #93

apexalpha wrote: post #20

I think you're forgetting the main reason: the group of people using it to communicate is really small and shrinking every year. The only large group of people who still primarily use SMS to communicate person-to-person is Android users in the USA. Every other country has settled on either Telegram, WeChat, WhatsApp or FB Messenger, or other niche apps. These apps work on both iOS and Android and often also Windows.…

I'm from Europe and use SMS only, I don't get it how having a dozen of messaging apps and remembering who uses what is better than a simple SMS that I can send to absolutely anyone with a phone..

Same