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EU Gives Final Approval to Law That Will Force iPhone to Switch to USB-C

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Re: EU Gives Final Approval to Law That Will Force iPhone to Switch to USB-C

#31

Post by Dylan16807 »

diebeforei485 wrote: post #28
EMIRELADERO wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This law does not carve the USB-C into stone. There is a review mechanism and a mechanism for monitoring the market and approving another port in the future when it's time to do so. This is done through the USB Implementers Forum. All this law really, truly does is force manufacturers to sit around a table and work out a single solution for the whole electronics market. EU doesn't really care about USB-C or USB-D or…

That's a bit strange. The USB Implementers Forum people are partly why we're in this mess. What if someone comes up with something just better, and doesn't want to deal with the cruft and backward compatibility requirements of USB?

For charging, the spec is tiny.

For slow to medium data, USB 2.0 is baked in to so many chips that it's hard to imagine wanting anything else.

For fast data, maybe you want a new port in some situations, but does that also have to be your only charging port?

Re: EU Gives Final Approval to Law That Will Force iPhone to Switch to USB-C

#34

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #31
diebeforei485 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit strange. The USB Implementers Forum people are partly why we're in this mess. What if someone comes up with something just better, and doesn't want to deal with the cruft and backward compatibility requirements of USB?

For charging, the spec is tiny. For slow to medium data, USB 2.0 is baked in to so many chips that it's hard to imagine wanting anything else. For fast data, maybe you want a new port in some situations, but does that also have to be your only charging port?

> For charging, the spec is tiny.

Have you ever looked at the horror that is USB-PD? The reason you've never seen v1 devices in the real world is because the spec was impossible to implement so they had to fix it in a v2.

Re: EU Gives Final Approval to Law That Will Force iPhone to Switch to USB-C

#35

Post by olliej »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #18
MisterSandman wrote: post #4

Just curious, what happens when USB C gets outdated and needs to be replaced?

This law does not carve the USB-C into stone. There is a review mechanism and a mechanism for monitoring the market and approving another port in the future when it's time to do so. This is done through the USB Implementers Forum. All this law really, truly does is force manufacturers to sit around a table and work out a single solution for the whole electronics market. EU doesn't really care about USB-C or USB-D or…

How does that work though?

No one can put a new device on the market without first getting approval from the USB-IF. It means that companies for which the only thing that matters is the fractions of a cent they can save on the production have much more control over the entire industry.

It also means that no one can put a product out that requires _anything_ beyond what the current connector can do, because step 1 is going to the IF and detailing what you are planning to do in a future product, and then wait while your competitors implement your feature and get to ship at the same time as you.

Re: EU Gives Final Approval to Law That Will Force iPhone to Switch to USB-C

#38

Post by 1123581321 »

EMIRELADERO wrote: post #18
MisterSandman wrote: post #4

Just curious, what happens when USB C gets outdated and needs to be replaced?

This law does not carve the USB-C into stone. There is a review mechanism and a mechanism for monitoring the market and approving another port in the future when it's time to do so. This is done through the USB Implementers Forum. All this law really, truly does is force manufacturers to sit around a table and work out a single solution for the whole electronics market. EU doesn't really care about USB-C or USB-D or…

That committee can easily hold the standard hostage unless the EU allows innovative manufacturers to prove new connectors in the real world.

Re: EU Gives Final Approval to Law That Will Force iPhone to Switch to USB-C

#39

Post by robin_reala »

olliej wrote: post #6
MisterSandman wrote: post #4

Just curious, what happens when USB C gets outdated and needs to be replaced?

It doesn't. Just ask South Korea how their IE law went :-/

That’s a different situation. They didn’t have an IE law: they had a specific requirement for secure transactions. At the time the US was banning export of anything over 40-bit, so they had to come up with their own standard: SEED. They produced IE and NN4 plug-ins, but NN4 died off and then inertia kept every site in the country on the national encryption standard that no other browsers supported. (Firefox does attempt to support it, but websites tend to assume IE and ActiveX regardless.)

In this case the EU has aligned with an existing industry standard, and has said that they expect the standard to develop over time.

Re: EU Gives Final Approval to Law That Will Force iPhone to Switch to USB-C

#40

Post by viraptor »

olliej wrote: post #35
EMIRELADERO wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This law does not carve the USB-C into stone. There is a review mechanism and a mechanism for monitoring the market and approving another port in the future when it's time to do so. This is done through the USB Implementers Forum. All this law really, truly does is force manufacturers to sit around a table and work out a single solution for the whole electronics market. EU doesn't really care about USB-C or USB-D or…

How does that work though? No one can put a new device on the market without first getting approval from the USB-IF. It means that companies for which the only thing that matters is the fractions of a cent they can save on the production have much more control over the entire industry. It also means that no one can put a product out that requires _anything_ beyond what the current connector can do, because step 1 is…

It already worked before. The micro-usb charging was also an EU change because everyone was using their very special connector. (https://www.engadget.com/2009-06-29-nokia-apple-rim-and-othe...) Yet now we have USB-C.

(I don't know exactly "how" in this case)

Also it's extremely unlikely we'll need that for decades. USB-C as a connector supports absurd bandwidth and power. If you can pull 120W and drive 2x 4k displays from your phone... what would be the reason for the next upgrade? (and those are likely not the physical limits yet)

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