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The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

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Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#81

Post by enos_feedler »

lolinder wrote: post #52

Does anyone have a good explanation for what Docker+WASM actually is? This announcement explains what WASM is and what Docker is, but I already knew both of those and am still confused about what Docker+WASM is. Is it just wrapping a WASM binary in a Docker container?

I was just coming here to write a comment that says I think the blog post is missing a section. Or it at least feels that way.

At the heading “How do I get the technical preview?” I was expecting a heading that says “What is Docker+WASM?”

Glad I am not the only one

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#82

Post by enos_feedler »

saidinesh5 wrote: post #55
DeathArrow wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I want to compile my app to WASM if it's not running in a browser?

It depends on whom you ask/what your app does. For serverless usecases, cloudflare etc.. found that it would be faster to just call a function from a wasm binary than spin up a whole docker container [1]. Which basically translated to cost savings. In the last company I worked for [2], we saw wasm as a way to easily ship user code in a cross platform way. We mostly targeted edge-ml use cases. Wasm allowed us to packa…

This seems like the best reason to use WebAssembly. The benefit is for the system integrator / platform and the value prop is clear vs. any other technology out there

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#83

Post by timanglade »

stoplying1 wrote: post #67
timanglade wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Docker+Wasm" is just a shorthand for the Technical Preview build, which allows you to build both traditional container apps, as well as Wasm apps. Behind the scenes, we try to let Wasm apps be developed largely without interference from any container technology — just giving you a good local environment you can use to code against. That said, if you want, we do offer the ability to run Wasm apps within a Docker Comp…

This seems like a good way to muddle the remaining value prop that docker has. I have zero idea why I'd want wasm via docker tooling vs what exists, especially as people more more and more to not-docker for building and running their containers. I think I see what someone is trying to do, but I don't know any dev looking for this or having a problem solved by it.

> I don't know any dev looking for this or having a problem solved by it.

Judging by the reception at KubeCon & elsewhere today, we think at least some folks are excited by it. But it’s still early, and who knows, you may be right in the end. We launched this as a technical preview to test a hypothesis and learn from it, and so far the interactions from this HN thread alone have been greatly helpful.

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#84

Post by piersj225 »

syrusakbary wrote: post #74
AkshatJ27 wrote: post #70

For some reason I thought this was gonna be a demo of running docker in your browser through WASM. kinda disappointed that's not it :p

Funnily enough, I believe that's completely achievable with enough time spent on it (probably a few weeks of an engineer working full time). We have technology like WebVM [1] (from leaningtech / CheerP) or Copy86 [2] that already allows x86 machine code execution/emulation on the web. If you add an OCI client layer on top that is executable in the browser, it should be possible to run Docker containers in the browser…

Sorry I can't reset my docker password to double check, but I think something like this exists [1]. I'm not sure what its limits are, but its a great tool for learning.

[1] https://labs.play-with-docker.com/

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#86

Post by espadrine »

mikesir87 wrote: post #31
DeathArrow wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I want to compile my app to WASM if it's not running in a browser?

Great question! The promise (and excitement) of Wasm is to have portable, secure, quick-to-start, and low resource usage apps. So, write code in Go, Rust, C++, or any other language that can output to Wasm (up to over 40 now!) and you're good to go! The binaries are super small too. Happy to dive in more too!

> quick-to-start, and low resource usage

Are there realistic benchmarks that quantify these gains?

A first view of the promise reads reminiscent to the JVM days, which promised to solve portability. The main difference is JIT vs. AOT, but hidden behind that remains also the complex management of FS access, threading, spawning, SIMD, GPU, and other unportable differences. While I imagine that the shim would avoid having a whole Linux, what do we lose in the change?

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#87

Post by ThinkBeat »

oh good two buzzwords slammed together.

I read that press release or whatever a couple of times and I still can't figure out what the point is.

When I first saw it I was hoping that it would free Docker from the chains of VMs. (On Windows and Mac) If images target WASM then you should be able to run on them on any platform supporting WASM right?

I dont think that is what it does.

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#88

Post by MuffinFlavored »

artdigital wrote: post #80
lolinder wrote: post #52

Does anyone have a good explanation for what Docker+WASM actually is? This announcement explains what WASM is and what Docker is, but I already knew both of those and am still confused about what Docker+WASM is. Is it just wrapping a WASM binary in a Docker container?

I read through it at first and thought it was the docker desktop app rewritten in wasm instead of electron I guess it’s a wasm runner

So Wasmer but... OCI/Docker?

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#89

Post by lolinder »

timanglade wrote: post #61
lolinder wrote: post #52

Does anyone have a good explanation for what Docker+WASM actually is? This announcement explains what WASM is and what Docker is, but I already knew both of those and am still confused about what Docker+WASM is. Is it just wrapping a WASM binary in a Docker container?

"Docker+Wasm" is just a shorthand for the Technical Preview build, which allows you to build both traditional container apps, as well as Wasm apps. Behind the scenes, we try to let Wasm apps be developed largely without interference from any container technology — just giving you a good local environment you can use to code against. That said, if you want, we do offer the ability to run Wasm apps within a Docker Comp…

I'm still confused. This is the big thing I'm not really getting:

> which allows you to build both traditional container apps, as well as Wasm apps

I can already do that. Using Rust for the sake of example: `cargo build` can give me a WASM binary, and `docker build` can give me a container. Is Docker+WASM going to replace `cargo build`? Or is it going to wrap the WASM binary produced by cargo in another layer of abstraction? If the latter, how is this new layer of abstraction different from just using one of the WasmEdge docker containers [0]?

I'm not trying to be combative, I'm just sincerely confused at what problem this technical preview is intended to solve.

[0] https://wasmedge.org/book/en/quick_start/use_docker.html

Re: The Docker+WASM Technical Preview

#90

Post by syrusakbary »

piersj225 wrote: post #84
syrusakbary wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funnily enough, I believe that's completely achievable with enough time spent on it (probably a few weeks of an engineer working full time). We have technology like WebVM [1] (from leaningtech / CheerP) or Copy86 [2] that already allows x86 machine code execution/emulation on the web. If you add an OCI client layer on top that is executable in the browser, it should be possible to run Docker containers in the browser…

Sorry I can't reset my docker password to double check, but I think something like this exists [1]. I'm not sure what its limits are, but its a great tool for learning. [1] https://labs.play-with-docker.com/

I just played with it and it doesn't execute the container in the browser. It executes it remotely and proxies the stdin/stdout and such from/to the browser (the browser is just a client instead of a runner)
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