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Why are there so few dead bugs on windshields these days?

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Why are there so few dead bugs on windshields these days?

#101

Post by Beltalowda »

lettergram wrote: post #95
fleddr wrote: post #74

Here in the ultra-dense Netherlands, threats to insects are magnified. As such, it's easier to point to specific causes. Butterflies: 50% reduction in 50 years. Beetles: 75% decline since 1985. Ladybugs: 50% reduction in 20 years. Across the border in Germany: a 75% decline in flying insects since 1989. It doesn't take much of a scientist to see the trend. I've been hiking the forests here multiple times per week for…

While I don’t disagree with those two points I don’t know if they’re the primary cause. I also think it’s important to put it into context. 1. These insects weren’t really robust to begin with. Take the monarch butterfly in the North America. They actually needed primarily milkweed to survive. A single point of failure (milkweed) can cause the population to collapse. When we put up houses and converted land to farms,…

> In the 1950s in the Midwest there had already been farmland all over for 50+ years. Same with Ireland (for hundreds). The insect populations have only noticeably declined in the last few decades. Unfortunately, we don’t have enough historical data to confirm what it is exactly. Even in the 1970s you’d have solid layers of bugs on windshields driving between cornfields. Now, nothing.

This assumes that farming methods have remained identical since the 1950s or 70s, but they haven't. I don't know if the parent poster is correct, but I don't think is a good argument unless you also account for changes in agricultural practices in the last 50+ years.

Re: Why are there so few dead bugs on windshields these days?

#102

Post by stinos »

dutchbrit wrote: post #94
fleddr wrote: post #74

Here in the ultra-dense Netherlands, threats to insects are magnified. As such, it's easier to point to specific causes. Butterflies: 50% reduction in 50 years. Beetles: 75% decline since 1985. Ladybugs: 50% reduction in 20 years. Across the border in Germany: a 75% decline in flying insects since 1989. It doesn't take much of a scientist to see the trend. I've been hiking the forests here multiple times per week for…

It’s also sad to see what people are doing to their gardens over here. Fake grass, no plants/just bricks. Not to mention the municipalities mowing nice patches of grass/plants/flowers where insects thrive.

Not to mention the municipalities mowing nice patches of grass/plants/flowers where insects thrive.

That lacks an important nuance: in most circumstances (regarding soil type/nitrogen deposition), not mowing at all would lead to those patches being overgrown by fast growers leading to less plant diversity. Can happen in as little as a year or 2. So the mowing itself is not the problem, it's the amount, how and when.

Re: Why are there so few dead bugs on windshields these days?

#103

Post by Beltalowda »

another_story wrote: post #85
vlovich123 wrote: post #17

To everyone replying “aerodynamics”, I’ve had the same car for about 9 years now and the drive along the 5 from Bay Area to LA feels like there’s fewer bugs on my windshield (granted not recorded diligently for scientific purposes but whereas before I’d need to scrub the windshield at least once halfway these days I can drive all the way and still don’t need a wash at the end) Same goes for the argument that bugs hav…

I actually find it rather interesting how many people here, in a forum I generally assume to be better informed than elsewhere, seem wholly unaware of the dramatic decrease in insects over the last few decades.

People who think they know better are more likely to comment than those who will simply say "huh, interesting!" You will often get a somewhat biased set of comments.

Re: Why are there so few dead bugs on windshields these days?

#104

Post by stinos »

another_story wrote: post #85
vlovich123 wrote: post #17

To everyone replying “aerodynamics”, I’ve had the same car for about 9 years now and the drive along the 5 from Bay Area to LA feels like there’s fewer bugs on my windshield (granted not recorded diligently for scientific purposes but whereas before I’d need to scrub the windshield at least once halfway these days I can drive all the way and still don’t need a wash at the end) Same goes for the argument that bugs hav…

I actually find it rather interesting how many people here, in a forum I generally assume to be better informed than elsewhere, seem wholly unaware of the dramatic decrease in insects over the last few decades.

I also find it rather interesting to see talks about insect decline while it's only one part of the larger issue, rated by some as important as the climate crisis: the biodiversity crisis. Dramatic decreases are happening for way more species than just insects.

Re: Why are there so few dead bugs on windshields these days?

#105

Post by Beltalowda »

unglaublich wrote: post #100

Pesticides and crop mono-cultures. There is no place for insects to live. When 0.1% of humans dies of a virus, we call it a disaster. When 50% of insects dies, we don't give a damn.

I actually don't care at all if an insect lives or dies. Insects do not have emotions; no other insects mourn if one dies. This makes them markedly different from humans and other animals; insects are little more than machines and from a moral perspective much closer to bacteria than, say, mice.

The only reason I care is because of the broader ecological effects. I don't care whether my gut microbes live or die either, if it wasn't for the health effects it would have on me.

Re: Why are there so few dead bugs on windshields these days?

#106

Post by stinos »

titzer wrote: post #37

It's partly due to mowing alongside highways and medians. That is primarily motivated by keeping the number of small animals down, reducing fire risk, and other reasons, but fewer tall grasses means drastically fewer bugs. Also, pesticides and general global insect decline. This is not primarily due to aerodynamics.

It's partly due to mowing alongside highways and medians. ... fewer tall grasses means drastically fewer bugs

This is way too general: in some countries and alongside specific highways, the state of grasslands is actually really good. Like: good enough to grow rare orchids and having >10 or >20 plant species/square meter. Because of correct mowing regimes for that vegetation type.

It also lacks nuance because as explained in another comment already: not mowing at all can make things worse. Which brings us to the tall grasses: meadows featuring a lot of tall grasses but hardly any other flowering plants have can have much less insects that meadows with a coverage of only like 20% grasses where the rest is taken by a diversity of flowering plants.

Re: Why are there so few dead bugs on windshields these days?

#107

Post by alphabetting »

klabb3 wrote: post #58
Moru wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the modern car windshields have a much flatter angle than old cars but it's not as news worthy. :-)

They account for this factor, and several others, in the study. There's an world wide decimation of insect populations, and it has received minor coverage relative to its likely significance to ecosystems.

what significant effects could there be on ecosystems by a decline in bugs? (I'm sure there are some, just curious)

Re: Why are there so few dead bugs on windshields these days?

#108

Post by lettergram »

data_maan wrote: post #98
lettergram wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don’t disagree with those two points I don’t know if they’re the primary cause. I also think it’s important to put it into context. 1. These insects weren’t really robust to begin with. Take the monarch butterfly in the North America. They actually needed primarily milkweed to survive. A single point of failure (milkweed) can cause the population to collapse. When we put up houses and converted land to farms,…

> In 100-200 years it’s likely the insects that survived will re-occupy new niches. Do you have any data to back this up? Also, the problem is that not many insects ARE going to survive. > The insect populations have only noticeably declined in the last few decades. This is probably outright misleading, since you don't have the data prior to those decades. The common mistake is that people use their own lifespan as a…

Regarding the niche comment. Look at any invasive species. Once it arrives within 10-20 years it can dominate the region it’s in. Evolution occurs the same way; once something mutates in a way with competitive advantage it expands. With insects this can happen rapidly (because they lay so many eggs). I don’t have it handy now, but we have examples of this in grasshoppers.

Pesticide resistant insects are another example. Now, this assumes we don’t keep altering pesticides, but we do. If we keep trying to reduce insect populations we can, so I don’t think it’ll happen unless we allow it to happen.

As for the other comment, my point is really we have records showing massive amount of insects all throughout history until the introduction of pesticides. Even during the Great Depression in the US we had massive swarms of insects. Once pesticides were introduced at scale we noticed a decline in recorded swarms until now we don’t even see them on windshields.

Re: Why are there so few dead bugs on windshields these days?

#109

Post by jorvi »

WJW wrote: post #88
newsclues wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a push to move to smaller regenerative farms occurring?

Yes, but the farmers are (obviously) not in favor and have been protesting heavily.

I would replace 'protesting' with 'terrorizing'.

They've been visiting politicians their homes with torches, threatening them and explicitly their kids, blockading highways with burning rubble, blocking highways with asbestos, using their tractors to rip out doors out of government buildings.

What is most aggrieving to me is that the police is pseudo on the side of the farmers. The head of the police said that he 'fully understands the plight of the farmers' and will keep on a policy of de-escalation. Scant few fines too.

Meanwhile a couple of climate protestors that tie themselves to a bridge get their head bashed in and then get fines of €300-5000.

Clown world.

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