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Pure Data as a plugin, with a new GUI

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Re: Pure Data as a plugin, with a new GUI

#51
I know there are a lot lisp fans here, so at the risk of being a thread-spammer: I made an extension for Pure Data to let you program in Pd in Scheme (the message part, not the DSP part).

It's here in case anyone is curious. It's the Pd cousin of my Scheme for Max project. https://github.com/iainctduncan/scheme-for-pd

Demo video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW_KxEK_k2M&ab_channel=Music...

I'm curious to see how it will fare in plugdata!

Re: Pure Data as a plugin, with a new GUI

#52

For those who are interested in music programming, I would like to invite you to have a look on the project I am working on and any feedback would be appreciated. https://glicol.org You can also live coding Glicol code as scripts inside a VST plugin: https://youtu.be/tmmBhBmIEW0 Pd is one of the most famous MPL and I have been referring to and reflecting on its design from the first day I design Glicol. I have been t…

I would love to get into this, but its syntax is so hard to read I get that you went for a compact syntax that is fast to write (maybe like a shell scripting for music programming), but it's also too hard to read / too sigil heavy IMO In special, the use of ` is very confusing and could probably be replaced by braces { }

Thanks for your feedback. The code on the front page is just to show everything in one place. Admittedly, rhe Meta node may be too advanced to be there. But I guess if you check the demo page you will find most syntax fairly intuitive.

Re: Pure Data as a plugin, with a new GUI

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The advantage of this PureData plugin and Max4Live over VCVRack is that you can edit the patch on the fly right in the DAW (in addition to the fact that visual programming is way more accessible than a compiled language).

Just FYI: you can do that too with a VST fork of VCVRack called Cardinal: https://github.com/DISTRHO/Cardinal

This is cool, but I think we are talking about different things. From reading the description of this project it looks like you can't actually _edit_ the individual modules. They still require compilation since it's C++. You can change the patch by adding modules and tweaking them a-la hardware Eurorack.

M4L and PD allow you to open the patch ("patch" as in MaxMSP patch, not a Eurorack patch) and edit its source code. Which is a completely different level of sound manipulation and synthesis.

Re: Pure Data as a plugin, with a new GUI

#54
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just FYI: you can do that too with a VST fork of VCVRack called Cardinal: https://github.com/DISTRHO/Cardinal

Yes. There os also a commercial initiative by the author of VCV to have it as a VST im the DAW. The difference between the two are that Cardinal only accepts open source modules and is packaged with all of them, while the VCV official VST lets you download modules on the fly.

+1 for the VCV VST.

The fact that it's paid might be a turn off for some, but I've found it to be really useful, and it works really well inside of Ableton. Can't speak for other DAWs but having been using it for the past 6 months or so, it's been fantastic.

Does anyone know of good resources for folks who want to develop their own modules for VCV rack?

Re: Pure Data as a plugin, with a new GUI

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think rewriting pd in Rust can be a good solution?Async in Rust is one of its selling points: https://rust-lang.github.io/async-book/ There are some good gui tools in Rust as well: https://www.egui.rs/ https://github.com/setzer22/egui_node_graph

No, I don't think that Rust would buy us anything in this regard. "Async" in languages like Rust are meant for an entire different problem domain (mostly networking). In my post above I'm talking about dispatching commands from the audio thread to a helper thread (pool) - and back. This has to be done in a realtime safe manner, so a general async framework won't be appropriate. > There are some good gui tools in Rust…

I see. Was just thinking aloud.

Re: Pure Data as a plugin, with a new GUI

#56
post #54
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. There os also a commercial initiative by the author of VCV to have it as a VST im the DAW. The difference between the two are that Cardinal only accepts open source modules and is packaged with all of them, while the VCV official VST lets you download modules on the fly.

+1 for the VCV VST. The fact that it's paid might be a turn off for some, but I've found it to be really useful, and it works really well inside of Ableton. Can't speak for other DAWs but having been using it for the past 6 months or so, it's been fantastic. Does anyone know of good resources for folks who want to develop their own modules for VCV rack?

v2 doesn't have native Apple Silicon compatibility yet. Rumors are we will need to wait for the v3 release.

In terms of the dev resources:

1. Here is a basic official tutorial: https://vcvrack.com/manual/PluginDevelopmentTutorial

2. A pretty good video tutorial: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d670AFZKGnw

Re: Pure Data as a plugin, with a new GUI

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VCV Rack is already open source. What would be the benefit of duplicating the 2000+ modules already present in Rack with PureData?

The advantage of this PureData plugin and Max4Live over VCVRack is that you can edit the patch on the fly right in the DAW (in addition to the fact that visual programming is way more accessible than a compiled language).

It's all about the level you want to edit the patch at. With PD you are likely to generally work at a lower level than in Rack/Cardinal, but you're still patching together elements of varying complexity.

You can also run PD as a plugin inside Rack to get "the best of both worlds".

Re: Pure Data as a plugin, with a new GUI

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pukette got the shits with the conditions of his grant from the french government that allowed the development of Max, because it disallowed him to use the same techniques to do visual synthesis. So he quit and reimplemented the whole thing. Except this time he used an open source license. The other advantage is because these things were implemented in the 80s when real time audio was a really big ask for computers,…

> The other advantage is because these things were implemented in the 80s Pd was developed in the mid 90s > they are very computationally efficient Not as efficient as it could be, though. For example, instead of proper SIMD instructions, the DSP perform routines only use manual loop unrolling, praying that the compiler will auto-vectorize it. Finally, everything is single-threaded, leaving lots of performance on the…

> Pd was developed in the mid 90s

Fair enough. Life was still pretty computationally constrained until the mid 00s mind you, so there's still an efficiency dividend here.

Nice work on the patchsets by the way - well beyond my abilities :)

Re: Pure Data as a plugin, with a new GUI

#60

I have a large collection audio plug-ins, but mainly for effects. While I would assume Pure Data can do effects I haven’t seen that capability pushed. So, does anyone know of good resources for learning Pure Data, not just in the context of effects, but for creating synths or anything else as well?

Designing Sound, by Andy Farnell
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