Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Why are there not more Apple-quality products?

news.ycombinator.com

1–10 of 95 posts

Ask HN: Why are there not more Apple-quality products?

#1
After all these years, Android phones still feel like cheap plastic to me, and the interface feels cheaply put together.

Why aren't there more Apple-quality products?

For example, couldn't someone make a great smartphone with limited models, a very tiny app store that doesn't have nearly the range of the Apple app store, but just enough to do common things for some small subset of the market?

Same question about why there isn't one polished Linux-based operating system, etc.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there not more Apple-quality products?

#2
If you want the disappointing answer, it's because the United States government implicitly forces a smartphone manufacturing duopoly where both options are under their control. If you want the slightly-less-disappointing answer, it's because there aren't any other tech companies with 200 billion dollars in liquid cash sitting in their bank account. If you want the bluepill answer, it's because Tim Cook has a secret vault deep within Cupertino HQ that contains the secret, unique texts that describe the highly-guarded technology of Retina Displays and unibody frame manufacturing.

Honestly though, quality is subjective. My measure of quality comes from how well the software I use runs on these devices - and unfortunately, it doesn't work well. GNU software is too much of a hassle on MacOS, setting up my sync system isn't even an option on iOS. The phone could feed my cat and make me dinner, but it still wouldn't be a daily driver unless it makes my life easier as a user. Neither one really does,

Maybe the most realistic answer is that everyone else has seen what Apple made, and doesn't want to build a locked-down vertical ecosystem. People get frustrated dealing with SMS/iMessage bridging and MacOS/iOS deciding which software they get to run. These people want to innovate beyond what Apple has done, and I think that's a pretty amicable goal. Trying to sell a device as locked-down as the iPhone in 2022 will rightfully get you laughed out of the room.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there not more Apple-quality products?

#3
Barrier to entry is very high (lots of expensive man hours to design and program device), and the people with sufficient money are not willing to bet they can sufficiently outcompete Apple and existing Android phone makers on cost to quality ratio to make a sufficient return in investment.

Microsoft was halfway there, opened up retail stores, had a working product they could keep improving, and then pulled the plug. Not sure why leadership was not interested in risking a little bit more to have a piece of the Apple pie, in addition to the rent they get from Office/Azure/Windows.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there not more Apple-quality products?

#5

Barrier to entry is very high (lots of expensive man hours to design and program device), and the people with sufficient money are not willing to bet they can sufficiently outcompete Apple and existing Android phone makers on cost to quality ratio to make a sufficient return in investment. Microsoft was halfway there, opened up retail stores, had a working product they could keep improving, and then pulled the plug.…

> Microsoft was halfway there

I see that more as “on a way there, without knowing how far they were, and even without being sure the road they were on would not reach a dead end”.

What makes you think they were halfway? Even if there are good arguments now that they were, could they have known them at the time?

Re: Ask HN: Why are there not more Apple-quality products?

#6
> one polished Linux-based operating system

This one is more clearly related to an area I know a lot about (expressions of personality dynamics in products and organizational philosophy), so I'll start there.

Linux as it stands today is more about a divergent, possibilities-first engagement with big-picture concepts.

What you are looking for, in that realm, would be a specific _distro_ and its maintainer, not a Linux-wide decision. That is the closest you will get (and it's a pretty amazing state of things at that, tbh), and I would recommend you reach out to some distro maintainers that seem to think like you do. For example, (what was that James Bond villain again? ah yes) Zorin OS is similarly minded, but,

and this is important,

your post raises the "I'm a critic" flag in terms of personality archetype leanings, so it's more important at a stage like this to look for _possibility_ than _where things stand_ with a given distro. I'm sure you could find plenty of ways in which Zorin _currently_ sucks, for example!

If you want to budge the needle, so to speak, you will either have to find people who will not wither under your eye for quality as voiced through critique, as Jobs did, or find a constructive way to be open and amenable in your work.

Also, regarding Linux in general, look at the opposite of some of those terms, too, like the opposite of divergent and possibilities-first: Linux as a whole is not "about" the convergent probabilistic conceptual work you are describing. (i.e. let's aim at the single, refined collection of things we are pretty sure would be really appealing to a lot of people)

On the other hand, Jobs' personality was way more closely geared to that. Steve Jobs had an inner mandate to create the puck everyone else would wish they had skated to.

What you are expressing in your question is about your personal preference for a mindset that is similarly concept-focused, which seems very close to Steve's.

However, one thing we know about conceptualizers is that they are, especially in early stages of being disappointed with things (the start of their typical hero's journey, that's their equivalent of the village that's been ransacked and torched), vulnerable to the illusion that others either must see things the same way they do, OR those other people lack an eye for quality, taste, and vision. They have access to both the auteur's gifts and the liabilities that come with them.

However, to take on such a long-term goal, the fact that not everyone buys or wants Apple products should be evidentiary, instructional, or hopefully at least a constructive curiosity.

For example, I don't think of "quality" when I think of Apple, these days, even though I have used their products for a long time.

Just some thoughts, good luck to you in gathering ideas.

PS Watch the "Z Channel" documentary if you want another story that's similar to the Jobs-Apple mindset in a lot of ways.

Re: Ask HN: Why are there not more Apple-quality products?

#7
post #5

Barrier to entry is very high (lots of expensive man hours to design and program device), and the people with sufficient money are not willing to bet they can sufficiently outcompete Apple and existing Android phone makers on cost to quality ratio to make a sufficient return in investment. Microsoft was halfway there, opened up retail stores, had a working product they could keep improving, and then pulled the plug.…

> Microsoft was halfway there I see that more as “on a way there, without knowing how far they were, and even without being sure the road they were on would not reach a dead end”. What makes you think they were halfway? Even if there are good arguments now that they were, could they have known them at the time?

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Why are there not more Apple-quality products?

#10

Maybe try... a good Android phone? This question is silly. The Pixel or any top-end Samsung is equivalent or better than the iPhone in hardware. The Android and iOS user interfaces are similar enough that it's mostly personal preference and familiarity.

For the first two years until Google and Samsung stop updating it.
Post reply on HN