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Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

hechingerreport.org

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Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#251

Post by texaslonghorn5 »

whoooooo123 wrote: post #44
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #33

It should be easy to make the student body reflect the diversity of applicants: select them at random.

I actually think this would be a good way to run admissions at ultra-selective elite universities - places like Harvard or Oxford where getting in or not can make a huge impact on the entire rest of your life. Everyone knows the evaluation process is bullshit and highly dependent on luck, so why pretend otherwise? Just discard those applicants who don't meet some minimum objective standard (SAT scores or whatever) th…

> places like Harvard or Oxford where getting in or not can make a huge impact on the entire rest of your life.

??

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#252

Post by gumby »

Why even pretend that admission is in some sense "fair"?

I don't mean this as a "anti-woke" or "pro-woke" harangue, or as a middle school cynical pose.

Admission in the USA is a manual and largely arbitrary process. Just like judges' rulings, it's influenced by which person happened to read the application, what they had for breakfast and what time of day it is. Plus random factors like the orchestra's french horn player having just graduated.

We recognize this for hiring, why not school applications? Acknowledging it will reduce a lot of heartache.

(Another heartache reducer would be the elimination of the "common application")

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#253

Post by ALittleLight »

warbler73 wrote: post #128

As Nelson in The Simpsons would say: "Ha ha!" In other words, this was a foreseeable consequence. > Without SAT and ACT scores, he explained, the job of admitting students had become more subjective and more time-consuming. It's amazing we are doing a nationwide experiment to find this out.

I am confused as to why this wasn't expected. "We removed our objective measures, but then the process became more subjective." Riiiiiiight.

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#254

Post by melony »

crackercrews wrote: post #245
raincom wrote: post #233

Just take a look at kids of all Harvard faculty, top administrators. These kids get admitted to Harvard. I know of some MIT faculty, who jumped to Harvard, only to have his kids get admitted there. Sure, any testing, any measurement would have problems. Replace that with a better one. Instead, these people hide behind "well-rounded" admit pool. Since SCOTUS is going to put an end to affirmative action, Harvard, Yale,…

I've heard that lots of professor kids get into the colleges where their parents teach. But is that surprising? They would presumably be much more well-qualified than the average applicant, based on both nature and nurture. Most administrators are not professors, but are former professors. The same rationale would apply to their kids.

University staffs' (that are reasonably high up) kids are always given priority. That's just how it works. The reason is that you don't want the parent to leave or complain.

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#255

Post by boppo1 »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #166
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is plenty of evidence to doubt the whole "holistic evaluation" line of thought, which is often a tool for subtle discrimination. And pretty much all of these schools already did "holistically evaluate" students; test scores were just one part of that evaluation. Besides, at the end of the day everything boils down to a single number - applicants are ranked and those that make the cutoff get in, those that are b…

> Besides, at the end of the day everything boils down to a single number This is about as silly as dating app profiles that cut off at 6'.

>This is about as silly as dating app profiles that cut off at 6'.

But it's reality. Women extremely rarely think of men under 6' as ideal mates.

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#257

Post by metalforever »

WalterBright wrote: post #243
metalforever wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can answer this because I was in this position. Parents couldnt afford the gas. They worked long hours to make ends meet and couldn’t take time to drive me to this stuff even if they had the gas money. Finally, there’s just not a lot of ECs available in a lot of poor areas , like the one I came from. I filled that space in the app talking about my hobbies instead because there was no money. Yeah.

The school clubs met after school, one was there anyway. The Boy Scouts also met within walking distance. The Scouts used to meet at public schools, but the people who hate the Scouts got them kicked out because they had a religious requirement for one of the ranks.

Can you please explain how the child would get home from the after school activity, if it existed?

I’m being clear when I am saying there really aren’t any EC options . In poor areas , there’s no money because school funding comes from property tax . Where I went, the funding was so tight they had to fire the foreign language , art teachers and music teachers . If they can’t afford regular instructors , where is the money coming from for the ECs?

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#258

Post by staticman2 »

overrun11 wrote: post #151
hotpotamus wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What solutions are the conservatives offering to crime, drugs, and homelessness?

Promoting strong family structures and communities. Supporting social norms that dissuade destructive behavior.

"Promoting strong family structures and communities"

What does this actually mean in practice? This vague comment could mean anything from running for office, passing no laws and shouting "Hey don't get divorced" to passing laws making it illegal for anybody to get divorced.

"Supporting social norms that dissuade destructive behavior"

Nobody is for "destructive behavior". What is "destructive behavior" and what changes does this vague comment mean in practice? It could mean anything from passing no laws and shouting "don't do drugs" to dissuading homeliness by throwing all homeless people in jail.

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#259

Post by hawaiianbrah »

gumby wrote: post #252

Why even pretend that admission is in some sense "fair"? I don't mean this as a "anti-woke" or "pro-woke" harangue, or as a middle school cynical pose. Admission in the USA is a manual and largely arbitrary process. Just like judges' rulings, it's influenced by which person happened to read the application, what they had for breakfast and what time of day it is. Plus random factors like the orchestra's french horn pl…

Why would removing the “common application” remove heartache? I’m not familiar with that idea.

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#260

Post by bushbaba »

WalterBright wrote: post #224
rayiner wrote: post #100

What surprises me is how many Asians support these measures. Make no mistake: our ability to progress as we have in America has depended on the fact that objective metrics cannot easily be gamed. The cost of test prep is a minor barrier to entry compared to the cultural knowledge required to write an essay that moves a WASP admissions officer, or the social capital and connections required to get involved in charitab…

The value of test prep is way, way overblown. Besides, the idea that you have to be wealthy to avail yourself of test prep is absurd. I buy books at the thrift store all the time, and there are always test prep books there for a couple dollars. The local public library has them for free. yootoob is loaded with test prep videos. There are no excuses. If you want to prep for the test, 1. read lots of books meant for ad…

Test prep is not overblown. Prior to test-prep I got a 630 on my math section. Post test prep I got an 800.

Why? Prior to test prep I was solving the problems as I was taught in calculus. Deriving equations. The test prep re-inforced memorizing key formulas and how to think not about solving the problem but eliminating options and determining when it's faster to validate if a given answer is correct.

SAT test prep does work. Similar to how FANG interview prep also works.

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