Earlier quoted context omitted.
They could just admit at random from among that group. What would be the downside?
That's my suggestion - who wants a school full of unlucky kids?
Okay, great Ringworld reference.
Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
161–170 of 602 posts
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
There’s infinite ways you can define diversity. Choosing to define it in the way you’re referring to (skin color, sex, sexual orientation) is just discrimination. Colleges should be about furthering academic knowledge and preparing our best and brightest to make the world a better place. Diversity for diversities sake harms that.
It sounds simple, but it's difficult to do Who are the best and brightest? How do you determine that? Do the best&brightest from one community or circumstance always have the same traits as the best&brightest from another community or circumstance? My understanding is diversity initiatives attempt to address the latter part (effective or not).
> Do the best&brightest from one community or circumstance always have the same traits as the best&brightest from another community or circumstance?
Can the answer to this question be "yes"? In the same way that the best NBA players share traits, I don't see any reason why the best physicians, engineers, etc. also wouldn't share traits across cultures/backgrounds.
Going further, can't we measure these traits with outcomes of standardized testing? Given you agree these traits exist, can you propose an better alternative?
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think people’s need to frame seemingly every issue and even their entire worldview as liberal vs conservative is the biggest problem in politics.
I think many things can be framed as "change things" or "leave them".
"change things" vs "change things but ostensibly back to the way they were before".
For instance, ruling against Roe v. Wade. Regardless of what you think of that, it, such a ruling was a deviation from the status quo. It was "changing things" as surely as the original ruling changed things.
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
Think of it like climate change. The weather today is the result of poor decision making 30, 40, 50+ years ago. Additionally, politics and policies exist at the national level as well and can influence what happens in even liberal cities.
I'm not sure that's true at all. There have been many demonstrably effective short-term crime reduction strategies. Broken window theory being the most famous example. Shockingly, arresting and confining violent antisocial people reduces violence in society.
Well as long as you’re not sure that’s good enough for me. I retract what I said.
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#165Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think many things can be framed as "change things" or "leave them".
"change things" vs "change things but ostensibly back to the way they were before". For instance, ruling against Roe v. Wade. Regardless of what you think of that, it, such a ruling was a deviation from the status quo. It was "changing things" as surely as the original ruling changed things.
Sure, or "we made a mistake changing things, let's put them back". It just depends on the timescales you consider when determining the status quo.
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#166Alternate headline: "Colleges that ditched admissions tests have to actually holistically evaluate applicants rather than reduce them to two numbers" No doubt that it's more subjective and more difficult; human beings are complex, multi-dimensional entities and I find it sad that in many of these selection processes, they are reduced to a few numbers for the sake of low effort filtering.
There is plenty of evidence to doubt the whole "holistic evaluation" line of thought, which is often a tool for subtle discrimination. And pretty much all of these schools already did "holistically evaluate" students; test scores were just one part of that evaluation. Besides, at the end of the day everything boils down to a single number - applicants are ranked and those that make the cutoff get in, those that are b…
> Besides, at the end of the day everything boils down to a single number
This is about as silly as dating app profiles that cut off at 6'.
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Sounds like a perfect environment for a generation of conservatives to get elected. Hopefully they stay close to the center for a long time. The conservative groundswell is because generations of conservatives have already been getting elected, especially in less flashy positions that wield influence. Conservatives have really played the long game, at least since the New Deal.
I think people’s need to frame seemingly every issue and even their entire worldview as liberal vs conservative is the biggest problem in politics.
> I think people’s need to frame seemingly every issue and even their entire worldview as liberal vs conservative is the biggest problem in politics.
I don't know if that was addressed to me for speaking of conservative political movements or to the conservatives, but it is not a label that I pin on an unwilling recipient; I am referring to a self-described conservative movement.
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s really disappointing that many recent attempts of progressivism have just turned into new sexism and racism but defended as “the correct” versions of those. It erodes the intellectual validity of these institutions.
It is not just neo-racism and neo-sexism. It is also a weird kind of neo-feudalism, excluding outsiders that cannot or won't fit the expected mold. In the court of Versailles, you had to behave according to a certain stiff etiquette. If the same is required in institutions of higher learning, how many really creative people will be willing to put up with it?
> If the same is required in institutions of higher learning
Can you give an example? At my colleges there were no rules about "stiff etiquette"
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cite what?
I assume the stories of black questions being dropped.
Ahh. See:
https://digitalcommons.law.scu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?artic...
There are some good snippets, but I’m on my phone. The whole thing is worth a read though.
Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
The idea of a “well rounded student” reflects the WASP roots of these elite institutions. The ideal “Harvard man” was a well bred WASP who didn’t appear to try too hard (which would be unseemly) and balanced academic pursuits with sports and social activities accessible to people who had connections and didn’t work for a living. That’s who you wanted running your Wall Street banks, corporations, etc. Holistic admissi…
In slight defense, if you must hand the keys to the kingdom (or a substantial amount of power) to one person, you can do worse than putting them through a battery of enculturation that reduces their inclination to abuse it. And an effective part of that litmus test could be 'already has substantial power, but is able to self-restrain their abuse of it.' Caligula vs the recent British monarchy, etc.
Is there any evidence that Harvard educated politicians or business leaders behave more ethically than their peers from less prestigious schools?