Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students • Hacker News Board

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#131

Post by kenjackson » Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 4:16 PM UTC

tjs8rj wrote: post #103

hhmc wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the argument goes something like: if racial groups and socioeconomic outcomes are correlated due to previous inequalities, and social mobility is limited, then doing nothing further entrenches the inequalities.

Then discriminate on the socioeconomic inequalities. A poor white person and a poor black person should get aid. Obama’s daughter (black, but rich and powerful) doesn’t need any aid or discrimination in her favor. Discriminating on the basis of race for these programs is so stupid. Ask why and people say “because socioeconomic status”, but then why don’t you discriminate on that? I think people know this but it’s a p…

No post body was provided.

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#132

Post by wincy » Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #42

MichaelCollins wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shaping the ethnic demographic of the school is a big component of the modern intent as well. Particularly, these "holistic" admission standards are designed to facilitate discrimination against Asian Americans. This is justified with transparently racist bullshit claims about Asian American students being too focused on academic performance, not "well rounded" whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. They reduce…

A more charitable interpretation is that a student body made up of too much of any one thing is not good. Part of the value proposition for going away to university for four years is to spend that time surrounded by diverse and interesting people. That doesn't excuse the actual racism that we've seen in admissions, of course.

I don’t know, universities in Israel seem to keep magically pumping out geniuses that invent all sorts of incredible technologies despite not being particularly diverse.

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#133

Post by bombcar » Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

preommr wrote: post #40

Onanymous wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Education is not about taking a course or reading bunch of books. The big part of education is being able to directly ask a knowledgeable person once you're stuck. You can ask the community of course but the quality of community answers is more than often just trash.

> The big part of education is being able to directly ask a knowledgeable person once you're stuck. Stuck on what? For an undergrad, those problems can easily be solved by going online or to a tutor for a fraction of the cost. And that's for STEM based problems, humanities is all about flattering whatever opinions the professor personally holds. The best piece of advice I got was from one of my english highschool tea…

Now you know why businesses love university graduates! Being told what you want is a prime mover in business.

Now back to my TPS reports.

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#134

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 4:17 PM UTC

JadeNB wrote: post #107

FredPret wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm in a bubble, but every anecdote I read online in the past year or two is someone royally fed up with liberal politics. On Twitter, Reddit, and real life, the majority of people keep complaining about crime, drugs, homelessness. Sounds like a perfect environment for a generation of conservatives to get elected. Hopefully they stay close to the center for a long time.

> Sounds like a perfect environment for a generation of conservatives to get elected. Hopefully they stay close to the center for a long time. The conservative groundswell is because generations of conservatives have already been getting elected, especially in less flashy positions that wield influence. Conservatives have really played the long game, at least since the New Deal.

[deleted]

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#135

Post by D13Fd » Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

JadeNB wrote: post #107

FredPret wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm in a bubble, but every anecdote I read online in the past year or two is someone royally fed up with liberal politics. On Twitter, Reddit, and real life, the majority of people keep complaining about crime, drugs, homelessness. Sounds like a perfect environment for a generation of conservatives to get elected. Hopefully they stay close to the center for a long time.

> Sounds like a perfect environment for a generation of conservatives to get elected. Hopefully they stay close to the center for a long time. The conservative groundswell is because generations of conservatives have already been getting elected, especially in less flashy positions that wield influence. Conservatives have really played the long game, at least since the New Deal.

I think people’s need to frame seemingly every issue and even their entire worldview as liberal vs conservative is the biggest problem in politics.

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#136

Post by macrolocal » Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #38

tsunamifury wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really disappointing that many recent attempts of progressivism have just turned into new sexism and racism but defended as “the correct” versions of those. It erodes the intellectual validity of these institutions.

Fortunately I feel convinced that it's a passing fad. I just hope that the pendulum does not swing too far the other way.

I worry about illiberalism becoming more prominent on the left and right.

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#137

Post by bombcar » Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

2devnull wrote: post #34

Onanymous wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Education is not about taking a course or reading bunch of books. The big part of education is being able to directly ask a knowledgeable person once you're stuck. You can ask the community of course but the quality of community answers is more than often just trash.

I think you’ve defined a tutor. Tutors cost less than college tuition. And top professors answer emails from non-students, sometimes they teach for free on MOOCs. Perhaps you’re on a very narrow field where knowledge is extremely scarce, but that’s atypical.

For the cost of a college education at some places you could likely hire a knowledgeable professor of the skill set you’re interested in to live with you for four years.

Nobody will loan you money to do that, howvevr.

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#138

Post by aeonik » Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

preommr wrote: post #40

Onanymous wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. Education is not about taking a course or reading bunch of books. The big part of education is being able to directly ask a knowledgeable person once you're stuck. You can ask the community of course but the quality of community answers is more than often just trash.

> The big part of education is being able to directly ask a knowledgeable person once you're stuck. Stuck on what? For an undergrad, those problems can easily be solved by going online or to a tutor for a fraction of the cost. And that's for STEM based problems, humanities is all about flattering whatever opinions the professor personally holds. The best piece of advice I got was from one of my english highschool tea…

Another unique bonus of university education: in my undergrad one of the professors noticed that I cared about the subject material more than my classmates.

Due to this he gave me opportunities to perform research in areas that I didn't even know existed.

Had I not gone to a university I never would have been exposed to these areas of technology.

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#139

Post by tenpies » Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #38

tsunamifury wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s really disappointing that many recent attempts of progressivism have just turned into new sexism and racism but defended as “the correct” versions of those. It erodes the intellectual validity of these institutions.

Fortunately I feel convinced that it's a passing fad. I just hope that the pendulum does not swing too far the other way.

No post body was provided.

Re: Colleges that ditched admission tests find it harder to fairly choose students

#140

Post by wincy » Sat, Oct 22, 2022, 4:22 PM UTC

paulpauper wrote: post #109

Even very high scorers sometimes find it impossible to get into top schools. Part of the problem is supply of slots has not kept up with population growth. It's not like Harvard's enrollment has kept up with population growth. Another problem is that the ceiling of standardized tests has been lowered, so top scores more more common.

I know a guy who got a perfect on his SAT at my lower middle class suburban high school back in 2004 or so. He got rejected from Harvard. Even the most prestigious school around the Kansas City Metropolitan area only gets 1 or 2 people going to Ivy League schools every year out of maybe 200. Which I think is funny because they definitely bill themselves as an “Ivy League Prep” type of school.