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Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

lifemichael.com

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Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#61

Post by BitwiseFool »

twblalock wrote: post #37
BitwiseFool wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There needs to be a system where accessibility issues can be raised and addressed without allowing attorneys to profiteer from the system.

Why, so the arbitrators of that system can profit instead? And so the people who appoint them can profit from having such a lucrative power?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. The process can still be something that involves a government body, but one where the complainant cannot sue for damages so long as good-faith efforts to remediate the problem are being made.

And hopefully one where a punitive fine/fee is not assessed. I don't think anyone who puts a video online should be punished if they didn't know they had to put closed captions on it.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#62

Post by drdeca »

ceejayoz wrote: post #53
josephcsible wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't that attorneys can profiteer. The problem is that if you spend a bunch of time and money to make available a public resource that you're not making any money off of, you shouldn't be forced to choose between spending way more money on it or taking it away from everyone.

> you shouldn't be forced to choose between spending way more money on it or taking it away from everyone... The unfortunate end result of that is certain segments of the population treated as second-class citizens.

Then either whoever wants to fix that problem should pay for the additional costs, or accept that they aren't willing to do what is needed to fix the problem.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#63

Post by anaisbetts »

pnw wrote: post #33

This already happens in the US with ADA laws, and it will happen with California's new privacy and wage transparency laws. Unfortunately every time you create a new law with a private right of action, lawyers will monetize it at industrial scale. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/21/magazine/americans-with-d...

You might say that this is bad (and on its face, it certainly does feel that way), but OTOH, it rapidly resulted in an enormous quality-of-life change for disabled people, it is the reason that the US is vastly more accessible than many other places

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#64

Post by Entinel »

anigbrowl wrote: post #40
twblalock wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s boneheaded stuff like this that turned me against most accessibility laws in general. They sound like a good idea, but the implementations tend to make the perfect the enemy of the good and raise the barrier to entry too high for anyone who doesn’t have their own legal team.

Wouldn't it be wiser to organize for reform of the law (in concert with disability advocates) than to throw the baby out with the bathwater?

Do that before or while you get sued for violations? I think you should organize for reform of the law but it doesn't change the fact that in the meantime you'll be getting sued by 100 lawyers for violations.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#65

Post by angst_ridden »

There's a firm in Southern California that's suing restaurants / small theaters / community organizations / etc after bulk-scanning web sites for embedded video that lack links to caption files.

It's all ADA abuse, lawsuits in the $5k-$7k range. A huge percentage of those sued don't have the means to fight back, and settle.

The company that's suing people had some incompetent coder write their scanner, so it only parses the TRACK tag from a video container in certain circumstances. I was able to defend an organization by demonstrating this.

A vigorous countersuit is in the discussion stages.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#66

Post by pfortuny »

armchairhacker wrote: post #31

you should add subtitles to your videos. Either just auto-generate them with a service (can even use YouTube as someone mentioned), ask for the community to add subtitles, or hire transcribers if you’re willing to pay Can re-show the videos one at a time when subtitles are added rather than immediately doing it to the full batch. You could even just move the site to a Youtube channel, as youtube provides subtitles. B…

He has clearly made a cost/benefit analysis and has deemed the cost too big. It seems easy until you have to do it.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#67

Post by tomatotomato37 »

twblalock wrote: post #26
josephcsible wrote: post #14

This is a problem with accessibility laws in general, not with Israel in particular. Remember when UC Berkeley was a victim of the same kind of attack? https://reason.com/2017/03/07/berkeley-deletes-200000-free-o...

It’s boneheaded stuff like this that turned me against most accessibility laws in general. They sound like a good idea, but the implementations tend to make the perfect the enemy of the good and raise the barrier to entry too high for anyone who doesn’t have their own legal team.

While I generally agree, I think adding subtitles are a fairly low bar to pass that help the able & disabled in equal amounts. If you're in public and don't feel like wearing headphones or want to listen to music instead, than even shitty auto-generated captions are a massive improvement in quality

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#68

Post by josephcsible »

ceejayoz wrote: post #53
josephcsible wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't that attorneys can profiteer. The problem is that if you spend a bunch of time and money to make available a public resource that you're not making any money off of, you shouldn't be forced to choose between spending way more money on it or taking it away from everyone.

> you shouldn't be forced to choose between spending way more money on it or taking it away from everyone... The unfortunate end result of that is certain segments of the population treated as second-class citizens.

If the way to make people not be "second-class citizens" is just by taking away and destroying other people's things, rather than by making more things available to them, then I don't think it's something we should do.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#69

Post by bombcar »

ceejayoz wrote: post #53
josephcsible wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't that attorneys can profiteer. The problem is that if you spend a bunch of time and money to make available a public resource that you're not making any money off of, you shouldn't be forced to choose between spending way more money on it or taking it away from everyone.

> you shouldn't be forced to choose between spending way more money on it or taking it away from everyone... The unfortunate end result of that is certain segments of the population treated as second-class citizens.

That can be solved by providing assistance directly to those segments in some cases. For example, we require wheelchair ramps at commercial buildings and apartments of a certain size and even motels must have "wheelchair accessible" units, even if some are only accessible by stairs.

But we don't require every single house to have a wheelchair lift or ramp, but we can help pay for those to be installed on the houses that have someone who needs them.

Similarly, instead of requiring every website to comply with X, Y, or Zed, require it of the "commercial players" and provide assistance services to those who cannot access the rest of the web.

Re: Thanks to the Israeli accessibility law, I have to delete my websites

#70

Post by duxup »

munk-a wrote: post #43
pnw wrote: post #33

This already happens in the US with ADA laws, and it will happen with California's new privacy and wage transparency laws. Unfortunately every time you create a new law with a private right of action, lawyers will monetize it at industrial scale. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/21/magazine/americans-with-d...

Well, a lot of corporate compliance in the US is, by design, set up to be private action instigated. Unless you're running directly afoul of the EPA or some other government organization then the enforcement instigation is meant to be triggered by harm to an individual that seeks redress. This is one of many choices around enforcement that's available - and it seems to be much more generally palatable to Americans th…

Have many judges thrown out accessibility lawsuits?
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