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India fines Google $162M for anti-competitive practices on Android

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Re: India fines Google $162M for anti-competitive practices on Android

#81

Post by vkou »

makeitdouble wrote: post #73
musicale wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft's OS dominance through Windows is probably why Windows Phone is so successful, right? ;-) Presumably Apple also leveraged the Mac's unquestioned dominance of the PC space to enable the iPhone to beat established incumbents like Nokia, Blackberry and Palm. And Android undoubtedly became popular primarily because of Google's dominance in web search. I can't believe government regulators let these companies ge…

This is of course an excellent point: Microsoft getting repeatedly fined and slapped with anti-trust violations had actual results on their business practices. It might not have stopped them from other problematic behaviors, put certainly had a braking effect on the "nothing can stop us" train they were riding. The direct effect could be the Windows Phone not crushing the better options, yes. As you point out, Apple…

I wouldn't describe Nokia, Blackberry, or Palm as 'better options' in that space.

Re: India fines Google $162M for anti-competitive practices on Android

#82

Post by Mikeb85 »

enragedcacti wrote: post #70
Mikeb85 wrote: post #65

But Google doesn't require Android makers to bundle it's apps unless they specifically want to be called a Google device (and thus take advantage of the free marketing). Plenty of Chinese manufacturers ship without Google bits.

I highly recommend you read the original ruling, it is in English and it explains how they view the relationship between the Play Store, Android OEMs, the MADA, and other Google services.

The real issue is that Indian tech companies want to be able to bundle their crap with Android phones and still take advantage of the Google phone/Android brand.

They're welcome to sell forks and bundle all the alternative software they want with whatever store they want, they just can't call it an Android phone or call themselves an Android manufacturer.

What Google requires of OEMs has been known for a long time and isn't a secret. And as I already pointed out, companies like Huawei and others successfully sell Android forks with alternative stores and apps.

Re: India fines Google $162M for anti-competitive practices on Android

#83

Post by joshxyz »

keewee7 wrote: post #14

Good in theory but Google's Android apps and Google forbidding Indian telcom companies and Chinese smartphone manufactures from installing adwarecrap has made the ultra-cheap smartphone experience somewhat tolerable for hundreds of millions of people. It's all going to be insufferable adware hell from now on.

having tried android such as samsung vivo huawei xiaomi - everything just sucks.

switched to apple and it is better, doesnt prompt too much for tracking.

Re: India fines Google $162M for anti-competitive practices on Android

#84

Post by smaudet »

scarface74 wrote: post #77
planetsprite wrote: post #64

If "platform" companies like Apple, Google, Microsoft weren't capable of advantaging themselves via anti-competitive practices, their stock values wouldn't be nearly as high. Their implicit leverage over the markets they oversee via their OSes is the core of why they are the biggest companies in the world. Fines are a cost of doing business, hardly a deterrent when your product (your OS) is the conduit through which…

Yes because, Apple with only 3% market share in India should gain the same attention as Android. https://www.statista.com/statistics/262157/market-share-held... Have you ever thought that Apple’s market cap may be because people choose to pay a premium for their hardware using their own free will?

Where Microsoft had marketing and familiarity, Apple has/had a better touch (UX as it's often called).

Unfortunately for people who entered their ecosystem, there is a heavy influence to keep them there (more than a walled garden, an active insulation and inculcation - its hard to take your life elsewhere if you bought into the Apple ecosystem).

That's disappeared a bit with the cloud, but native apps still perform better, and a side effect of their walled garden is the apps that do survive tend to lack a lot of the junk and spyware that android users must dodge...

I think its a strong word to say "choose" - rather they are compelled.

Ofc some choose, but thousands of dollars in, its hard for the average to justify sinking that capital. Android phones don't sync with iCloud, don't connect to Apple TV, don't have iMessage or Facetime (at least I think not), don't sync their music libraries and don't do whatever it is Apple is selling gadget for these days.

I think if users were just choosing, it would be as easy to switch as it is to put on a different shirt. I can buy a shirt, I can't choose a phone.

I say this as someone unwilling to invest in phones or supporting gadgets, and also not entirely happy with Android either.

Re: India fines Google $162M for anti-competitive practices on Android

#85

Post by smaudet »

cafed00d wrote: post #44
sirpunch wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope people don't make the assumption that anything that's not coming from Google is harmful and a potential adware/malware. People who support Apple's app store monopoly also use the same logic. Maybe the Indian government needs to push separate bills prohibiting manufactures from packaging crapware. But this is a step in the right direction IMO.

> Maybe the Indian government needs to push separate bills prohibiting manufactures from packaging crapware One person's crapware is another person's batteries-included-ware. We wouldn't want to ban Sony MP3 players from including an app that plays music, right? Similar to how we wouldn't want iPods to be banned from coming with an in-built Apple Music.app client[1] Google's bundled-in variant of an internet browser…

"One person's crapware is another person's batteries-included-ware."

Point me at an android phone mfg in the past couple years that didn't come with not just FB preinstalled, but unable to delete. Or a samsung phone that doesn't have that annoying nagware you can't get rid of.

This isn't about 'batteries included' its about junkware being made impossible to remove.

What makes you special enough we all have to do things your way? Nothing. Just putting up with nonsense pushed by the likes of people who think they know best.

Re: India fines Google $162M for anti-competitive practices on Android

#86

Post by smaudet »

nmridul wrote: post #43
keewee7 wrote: post #14

Good in theory but Google's Android apps and Google forbidding Indian telcom companies and Chinese smartphone manufactures from installing adwarecrap has made the ultra-cheap smartphone experience somewhat tolerable for hundreds of millions of people. It's all going to be insufferable adware hell from now on.

Except Motorola (now owned by Lenovo and claims closest to default Android) most of the Chinese phones still come with their own bloatware. Xiaomi has many default apps including their own Messaging, file manager, dialer. These come with their own user agreement and privacy policy. Some of these apps are good to have while others are just bloat.

Motorola is chinese??

Re: India fines Google $162M for anti-competitive practices on Android

#87

Post by enragedcacti »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #82
enragedcacti wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I highly recommend you read the original ruling, it is in English and it explains how they view the relationship between the Play Store, Android OEMs, the MADA, and other Google services.

The real issue is that Indian tech companies want to be able to bundle their crap with Android phones and still take advantage of the Google phone/Android brand. They're welcome to sell forks and bundle all the alternative software they want with whatever store they want, they just can't call it an Android phone or call themselves an Android manufacturer. What Google requires of OEMs has been known for a long time an…

> What Google requires of OEMs has been known for a long time and isn't a secret.

They aren't being fined for keeping secrets.

> Huawei and others successfully sell Android forks with alternative stores and apps.

If it takes a 1 billion person market with no access to Google services and multiple gigantic partially state-owned companies (Baidu, Huawei, and Tencent at least) to create a competitor that's only viable in that one market, I would argue that it's good evidence India is on the right track here saying that Google has market dominance.

Re: India fines Google $162M for anti-competitive practices on Android

#88

Post by scarface74 »

smaudet wrote: post #84
scarface74 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because, Apple with only 3% market share in India should gain the same attention as Android. https://www.statista.com/statistics/262157/market-share-held... Have you ever thought that Apple’s market cap may be because people choose to pay a premium for their hardware using their own free will?

Where Microsoft had marketing and familiarity, Apple has/had a better touch (UX as it's often called). Unfortunately for people who entered their ecosystem, there is a heavy influence to keep them there (more than a walled garden, an active insulation and inculcation - its hard to take your life elsewhere if you bought into the Apple ecosystem). That's disappeared a bit with the cloud, but native apps still perform b…

> Unfortunately for people who entered their ecosystem, there is a heavy influence to keep them there (more than a walled garden, an active insulation and inculcation - its hard to take your life elsewhere if you bought into the Apple ecosystem).

Where?

Any music you bought from iTunes since 2009 was DRM free. Apple Music runs on Android, Amazon Fire devices and a few other non Apple platforms.

The AppleTV app is available on every streaming platform and you can watch movies and TV shows you purchased. Apple also participates in the Movies AnyWhere initiative along with most of the major studios. Meaning when you purchase a movie from Apple, Amazon, Google, Vudu etc they are added to all of your libraries.

AirPlay support is available on Roku devices as well as a few other platforms.

AirPods work as standard BT devices on non iOS devices.

The standard file dialog that apps use to save and load files surfaces all of your installed storage providers (Dropbox, Google Drive, OneDrive, etc) equally along with iCloud. If you are on an Android and have to get files off of iCloud, you go to the web.

FaceTime has been available for Android for a couple of years.

> don't sync their music libraries and don't do whatever it is Apple is selling gadget for these days.

Almost everyone uses a streaming service in 2022 and Apple Music is available for Android.

Re: India fines Google $162M for anti-competitive practices on Android

#89

Post by idealmedtech »

bradleykingz wrote: post #13
tatpacc wrote: post #4

Here is the link to original order [ https://www.cci.gov.in/antitrust/press-release/details/261/0 ] some experts 13. Accordingly, in terms of the provisions of Section 27 of the Act, the Commission has imposed monetary penalty as well as issued cease and desist order against Google from indulging in anti-competitive practices that have been found to be in contravention of the provisions of Section 4 of the Act. Some…

Holy hell, this seems a lot more comprehensive than I'd ever expected. Good job India. I hope this spreads to the rest of the world somehow. The fact that it's impossible to uninstall YouTube or use Vanced as the default for YouTube.com links is the bane of my existence.

You actually can have Vanced be the default! Set an app timer for 0hr 0 min on YouTube, and go into the app link behavior in settings to default to Vanced. After that, links should open in Vanced. In apps that have browsers, view the link in the internal browser if it brings you to YouTube.com, and it should redirect.

Re: India fines Google $162M for anti-competitive practices on Android

#90

Post by userbinator »

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #25
tatpacc wrote: post #4

Here is the link to original order [ https://www.cci.gov.in/antitrust/press-release/details/261/0 ] some experts 13. Accordingly, in terms of the provisions of Section 27 of the Act, the Commission has imposed monetary penalty as well as issued cease and desist order against Google from indulging in anti-competitive practices that have been found to be in contravention of the provisions of Section 4 of the Act. Some…

here is my take. currently there are all microsoft-y nudge user till they allow then say "user accepted"... case in point. i have a moto phone that has stock android. very nice. it has default sms as "messages". this app keeps nudging me to use "chat features" and other bs so the "dont use connected features" line is really small while accept is a big button. they dont want me to not accept so they keep pushing me. s…

I agree. There should be a "No means no."
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