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Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

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Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#261

Post by mkl »

pxeboot wrote: post #17
bxparks wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu but does not use snap. Doing "a lot more work" to install an OS does not sound appealing.

Installing Arch with the cli installer [1] is pretty straightforward these days. It only becomes a lot more work if you have very specific preferences on partition layouts, filesystems and bootloaders. In my experience, changing these things on Ubuntu was even more difficult and less documented. [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/archinstall

I haven't tried Arch, but in my experience changing those things in Ubuntu setup is simple and can be done in the GUI installer - I do it every fresh install. I haven't tried changing the bootloader; haven't had the need to.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#262

Post by bayindirh »

echelon wrote: post #190
thomaslord wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox is a particularly interesting case because it has a bunch of issues that only exist when it's installed via snap. I just recently ripped out the default snap version and installed via the official PPA, and Firefox seems to be running much smoother now. For basically any app I use that's installed via snap, I eventually run into a gamebreaking issue and have to remove the snap version and find a normal .deb to…

Snap makes sense, but it'll take time for the dust to settle. Just like Unity / Wayland. Applications like Firefox, IntelliJ, Chromium, etc. shouldn't be tied to system dependencies managed by apt. They should be entirely monolithic and hermetic. Long term this deb vs snap approach will make sense and be good for Desktop Linux.

> Snap makes sense...

No. When we have flatpak and appimage, snap makes zero sense. I just see it as a way to implement a centralized walled garden into the OS, and don't install Ubuntu systems even in VMs for five minute test drives.

The way Canonical rolled it out is flat out insulting to the free software community and distro culture, IMHO.

It's too late here to write about its technical problems, so I'll leave it at that.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#263

Post by amelius »

overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

I would love to switch away, but nVidia is forcing me to use Ubuntu on their Jetson series of products.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#264

Post by smallerfish »

MichaelCollins wrote: post #158
smallerfish wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish Pop OS would tackle KDE. It's a much better DE (particularly if you like to customize), but there are very few (if any) distributions which have an opinionated tuned experience out of the box.

KDE would be superb if it weren't so buggy. KDE is aimed in the right direction, trying to do and be all the things a desktop environment should do and be. But unfortunately the implementation is frequently deficient. Even seemingly basic things frequently break, like re-applying mouse preferences when you unplug and replug your mouse: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=435113 A couple more recent annoyances, of ma…

Yeah, hence my wish that somebody with strong opinions, financing and some energy would adopt KDE as the main DE for their distro.

There are some very prolific people involved in the KDE project, but from my understanding some of the largest KDE distros, e.g. Kubuntu, are conservative and slow to contribute anything.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#265

Post by stereoradonc »

overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

Cancel culture comes to Linux!

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#266

Post by alwaysanon »

I am a long-time Ubuntu user who switched from Ubuntu 22.04 to Fedora 36 because I have a 12th gen Intel CPU and read that the newer kernels it offers supported the P/E cores better.

I have to say that I am very impressed with Fedora. Defaults to nice Noto fonts, everything feels cleaner/snappier, no snaps, and the only downside was I had to follow these instructions to get the NVIDIA drivers - which wasn't that bad... https://rpmfusion.org/Howto/NVIDIA

I was also pleasantly surprised that all of my usual tools (python3, node, etc.) seemed to either already by there or were a dnf install away - and that gave me the versions I wanted/expected...

I was thinking I'd go back to Ubuntu when a new version dropped with a new kernel that supported the modern Intel processors - but now I think I am going to stay...

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#267

Post by pxeboot »

mkl wrote: post #261
pxeboot wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Installing Arch with the cli installer [1] is pretty straightforward these days. It only becomes a lot more work if you have very specific preferences on partition layouts, filesystems and bootloaders. In my experience, changing these things on Ubuntu was even more difficult and less documented. [1] https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/archinstall

I haven't tried Arch, but in my experience changing those things in Ubuntu setup is simple and can be done in the GUI installer - I do it every fresh install. I haven't tried changing the bootloader; haven't had the need to.

There are many configurations that aren't (easily) possible with the GUI. The average user isn't going to care if they use LVM on LUKS or LUKS on LVM, but if you do, Arch makes it easy.

I personally prefer using EFISTUB instead of a bootloader, and this was very difficult to do on Ubuntu last time I tried.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#268

Post by a_t48 »

AaronFriel wrote: post #206
cgriswald wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i.e. try to do a snap refresh while firefox is running, nothing to update, because its running, quit it wait for all processes to die and then refresh, and it will update and cause you to wait 30-60s while it does it, and then you can restart firefox. Oh, it's worse than that. When there is an update available but firefox is running you get: > % snap refresh > All snaps up to date. It doesn't even tell you there is…

This seems broken, full stop. Can Firefox itself, when installed via Snap, notify the user that it needs security updates? If so, can users effectively do that, or do they have to know this incantation of closing, waiting, running a terminal command, and restarting?

This is what Slack does.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#270

Post by padraic7a »

throwup wrote: post #236
echelon wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Snap makes sense, but it'll take time for the dust to settle. Just like Unity / Wayland. Applications like Firefox, IntelliJ, Chromium, etc. shouldn't be tied to system dependencies managed by apt. They should be entirely monolithic and hermetic. Long term this deb vs snap approach will make sense and be good for Desktop Linux.

> it'll take time for the dust to settle. Just like Unity / Wayland There's a particular irony to this statement. Before adopting Wayland, Canonical tried to do their own thing with Mir[1]. Years later they gave up and reluctantly adopted Wayland. Their investment in Snap rhymes with this. Snap is an inferior competitor to Flatpak, and in the end it's likely the dust will settle for Snap the same way it did for Mir—i…

Mír still exists. It's a Wayland compositor now for IoT but it's still there.
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