Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

ubuntu.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 370 posts

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#231

Post by 7speter »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #26
severino wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also use Ubuntu a lot, and while I'm disappointed about this Snap thing, I'm still not looking for alternatives. At least until 22.04 I could dodge snaps pretty easily, but now, since Firefox is now a snap package, things went worse, at least for me. I gave it a try and, while the experience was not as bad as I feared, I soon encountered problems with things like trying to use a smartcard reader for signing documen…

> Maybe I should give Pop OS a try... I'm a big fan: it's like Ubuntu, but with much of Canonical's divisive changes reverted, and with a few other improvements. I switched from Ubuntu to Pop!_OS a few releases back when I got a System76 computer. (I also use it on my Lenovo laptop.)

>I'm a big fan: it's like Ubuntu, but with much of Canonical's divisive changes reverted, and with a few other improvements

Hmm, I assumed that PopOS pretty much just added their own extra stuff to an Ubuntu install. I didn't realize they got rid of the default snap cruft?

Anyways, the last time I used Pop it had this weird upgrade to nowhere thing happened where it prompted me to update and then the update files were nowhere to be found.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#232

Post by Mikeb85 »

zmk5 wrote: post #177
Mikeb85 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Seems like they consistently invent their own thing that's different than what RH/Suse/etc... come up with, then give up and just use that thing (Upstart vs. Systemd, Mir vs. Wayland, Unity vs. Gnome Shell and now Snap will probably lose to Flatpak...).

I think the Linux community's reflexive hatred of anything Canonical does is a major turn off. Unity wasn't bad, and judging by how much Wayland has struggled I am curious what would have happened if Mir was still around.

Wayland's fine if you don't use Nvidia (which seems to be true of many things that Nvidia breaks).

That being said, I didn't mind Unity or Mir.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#233

Post by Andys »

rcthompson wrote: post #108
akvadrako wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to use Snap at all. I've been using latest Ubuntu for a few years and I just uninstall it after every major upgrade. I do use flatpak for a lot of stuff, but it's better than Snap in many ways: it's faster, you can upgrade while apps are running, it allows third party repos, etc...

They make it nearly impossible to avoid snap. Every couple of upgrades, they unconditionally run a script that forcibly removes the Firefox deb and installs the snap. Nothing I've tried has been able to prevent this. It seems to be hard coded somewhere. So it's kind of like saying "well you don't have to stay in the pit" except you keep pushing me in the pit every time I climb out.

I'm not finding this to be the case, on every computer I now uninstall snapd completely and use the firefox-esr PPA (mentioned elsewhere), and I am able to apt-get dist-upgrade regularly with no problems.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#234

Post by Andys »

pmontra wrote: post #99
jonesnc wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on Ubuntu Server 22.04, and I've never had to use Snap. Is it exclusively a Desktop thing?

The letsencrypt certbot package has been a snap for a long time. It's their recommended choice even on Debian https://certbot.eff.org/

Its a good opportunity to switch out certbot for something else, there are some great alternative options on github

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#235

Post by Karupan »

Regardless of all the (rightful?) hate towards Ubuntu recently, it’s worked great for me. Just last week I had a spare Microsoft surface laptop 1 and wanted to setup a headless server since Raspberry Pi’s are ridiculously priced. Ubuntu 20.04 worked flawlessly out of the box whereas the Debian installer couldn’t detect the laptop keyboard and I couldn’t complete installation (just one USB port).

Also it’s just so much easier to find howto’s for Ubuntu, especially if it’s some weird hardware.

Love Ubuntu for personal use!

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#236

Post by throwup »

echelon wrote: post #190
thomaslord wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firefox is a particularly interesting case because it has a bunch of issues that only exist when it's installed via snap. I just recently ripped out the default snap version and installed via the official PPA, and Firefox seems to be running much smoother now. For basically any app I use that's installed via snap, I eventually run into a gamebreaking issue and have to remove the snap version and find a normal .deb to…

Snap makes sense, but it'll take time for the dust to settle. Just like Unity / Wayland. Applications like Firefox, IntelliJ, Chromium, etc. shouldn't be tied to system dependencies managed by apt. They should be entirely monolithic and hermetic. Long term this deb vs snap approach will make sense and be good for Desktop Linux.

> it'll take time for the dust to settle. Just like Unity / Wayland

There's a particular irony to this statement. Before adopting Wayland, Canonical tried to do their own thing with Mir[1]. Years later they gave up and reluctantly adopted Wayland. Their investment in Snap rhymes with this. Snap is an inferior competitor to Flatpak, and in the end it's likely the dust will settle for Snap the same way it did for Mir—in the dirt.

Canoncial as an organization has some serious NIH syndrome and they are putting "Linux on the Desktop" through a lot of unnecessary pain.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(software)

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#237

Post by chevdev »

huggingmouth wrote: post #163
5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jump to Debian. It has always worked towards users' interests, and probably will continue doing that because pretty much all developers are volunteers and are running a democratically driven development process. I never understood why Ubuntu is so popular because it's 99.99% Debian, and only gives you a handful of things on top of that: predictable release schedule (which is a two-edged sword if you think about it),…

Made the jump and couldn't be happier. One thing I noticed to keep in mind: Debian doesn't seem to be as proactive nor expansive as ununtu when it comes to security updates. I'm subscribed to both dsa and usn mailing lists and the updates conancal puts out are far more numerous and timely. Also, debians unattended upgrades packages leaves a lot of packages unupdated by default. Lastely, ubuntu releases have a well-de…

I would, if I used desktop Linux. I sort of do on my homelab sort of setup, but I'm specifically using Raspberry Pi OS because, well, my homelab is something like 30 raspberry pi's doing various things (yes, I know this isn't a good idea, but that doesn't mean I want to stop doing it).

I only have one laptop, and it's running something a bit more Redmond oriented.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#238

Post by [deleted] »

nrabulinski wrote: post #96
lvass wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you just want to install packages, nix-env is really simple.

Which, in my opinion, completely defeats the whole purpose of using NixOS. The last thing I want is a bunch of ad-hoc changes to my reproducible environment setup

[deleted]

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#239

Post by Kwpolska »

ghostpepper wrote: post #213
Kwpolska wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ubuntu does a pretty good job marketing-wise, many people start they journey with Ubuntu and never look for other distros. Or on the other hand, they end up on advanced/continuous-maintenance distros like Arch Linux.

Do you really think 'continuous maintenance' is an appropriate category for Arch? That hasn't been my experience.

If you go to an Arch community and you say you haven’t updated your system in a month, they will be mad.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#240

Post by ASalazarMX »

aliqot wrote: post #140
nickstinemates wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the ship sailed. Prime opportunity was when Ubuntu for Windows was launched.

>when Ubuntu for Windows was launched. embrace extend extinguish

Also, they know that extinguishing Ubuntu would mean IT people hopping to the next friendly distro. You can't put back the Linux rabbit in the hat.
Post reply on HN