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New Jersey legislators aim to ban most in-car subscriptions

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Re: New Jersey legislators aim to ban most in-car subscriptions

#71
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the generic congressional vote , which is simply the percent of people polled who prefer either party. It's analogous to the popular vote for President, not the percent of seats either party is predicted to win.

Many races only have candidates from a single party. Which discards votes in any such count not just from the election tallies but also likely voters.

Pollsters know that, so they phrase questions to avoid the issue, like:

"Would you rather see the Republicans or the Democrats in control of Congress, or doesn’t this matter to you?"

(from Monmouth)

Re: New Jersey legislators aim to ban most in-car subscriptions

#72
post #6

Go New Jersey! Now get Texas and California on board so car companies don't bother offering these in the country at all

Aren't they suing California now for having "too strict" of emissions regulations because California's position in the marketplace makes it so that their rules become de facto law of the land? If that goes through, I'm not really sure if California can do really any automotive regulation that other states won't like.

The Supreme Court just heard arguments in National Pork Producers Council v. Ross [1], which is challenging California's law that pork sold in California must follow certain animal welfare / health & safety standards. A big debate is over whether it was genuinely a health & safety standard versus a purely 'moralistic' law that is seeking to de-facto regulate other states.

The issue is called the "Dormant Commerce Clause" [2], which is the idea that one state can't place "undue burdens" on interstate commerce. California can't just ban all imports from Texas, or vice versa. But courts have generally upheld health and safety laws, like California's car emissions laws or Hawaii's very strict agricultural products import restrictions --- but only if it is narrowly-tailored and there is a compelling state interest. Hawaii has a very compelling state interest in keeping its unique biodiversity, while California has a compelling state interest in keeping the valley of asphalt known as Los Angeles free of smog. There isn't really a good bright line test or definition in existing precedent of what "compelling state interest" means when it must be balanced against "balkanization" [3] by these kinds of laws, so many are hoping SCOTUS uses this case to make a clear definition.

But it is likely that this kind of law would be seen more as a morality regulation than health and safety. California argued that it was not an attempt to legislate moral issues in other states, but more of a health and safety regulation:

> Mongan [California state solicitor] pushed back on some of the hypotheticals about state laws that would condition the sale of products on a company’s general health care or labor practices. He told Barrett that Proposition 12 is “focused on the production of goods that are coming into” California, rather than on company-wide policies. “I think we would all recognize,” Mongan said, that it would be problematic if states can condition the sales of those products on restrictions of wholly unrelated out-of-state purchasers.” [3]

[1] https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/national-pork-pr...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormant_Commerce_Clause

[3] https://www.scotusblog.com/2022/10/california-law-on-sale-of...

Re: New Jersey legislators aim to ban most in-car subscriptions

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is forcing you to buy that car mode. Many cars don’t have mandatory subscriptions.

Now apply this argument to ads on smart TVs. Oh wait... Recurring revenue business models are really appealing and companies are happy to take a short term hit in sales in order to increase their recurring revenue. Add to that the fact that people choose cars for all kinds of irrational reasons and I cynically expect car subscriptions, including mandatory subscriptions, to become the norm within a decade.

>"Now apply this argument to ads on smart TVs."

I'd love that. But sadly I can't vote with my wallet because virtually every television is a Smart TV nowadays. I would gladly pay more for a TV if I could find one that wasn't bundled with all the extraneous stuff. Especially one that isn't designed to be a sign in a fast food restaurant.

Re: New Jersey legislators aim to ban most in-car subscriptions

#74
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> in a nation where, on aggregate, their platform is unpopular Many polls report that the Republicans are more popular than the Democrats at the moment.[1] Sadly, refusing to acknowledge the existence of differing views seems to be rather common these days. 1: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/2022-generic-...

But FDR, with its New Deal, is still the prefered US President, and by a large margin :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_preside...

Re: New Jersey legislators aim to ban most in-car subscriptions

#76

I think this is great, and though I agree that determining whether there is an "on-going cost to the manufacturer" will be a gray area that automakers will try to game, I think that's a solvable problem. The heated seats example is a great one. There is no reason for this not be a one-time charge. On the other hand, I think it's fair to offer autopilot/"full self driving" on a subscription, or at least the upgrades a…

> On the other hand, I think it's fair to offer autopilot/"full self driving" on a subscription, or at least the upgrades as a subscription.

Agree with your overall point. However, this probably isn’t feasible considering most companies will follow Tesla’s FSD upgrade model.

Autopilot / FSD upgrades are often more safety than feature related. Allowing people to opt out of upgrades but keep their older FSD just means a bunch of vehicles on the road with depreciated safety features.

Re: New Jersey legislators aim to ban most in-car subscriptions

#77
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than simply saying No tell them to put you on their do not call list. Saying that is useless in many situations, but for a company like XM Radio that you haven’t done business with they really need to follow those rules.

Some companies have notoriously desperate pesterering. I've opted out of XM Radio and Spectrum solicitation multiple times. It doesn't seem to stick.

You must explicitly use the words “Put me on your do not call list.”

It’s dumb, but “If you want a telemarketer to stop calling you, do not say “Quit calling me” or “Don’t call me again.” In some companies, Reps are informed under strict guidelines to only delete records if the customer specifically requests they do so. Telemarketers are only required to put you on the “Do Not Call” list if you SPECIFICALLY request to be put on it.

https://consumerist.com/2007/08/27/to-get-telemarketers-to-s...

Re: New Jersey legislators aim to ban most in-car subscriptions

#78
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in a nation where, on aggregate, their platform is unpopular Many polls report that the Republicans are more popular than the Democrats at the moment.[1] Sadly, refusing to acknowledge the existence of differing views seems to be rather common these days. 1: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/2022-generic-...

Many congressional elections are unposed due to extreme gerrymandering this zeroes out voters from that party in a nationwide count. Going alphabetically Alabama 2 of 7 races without Democratic candidates which means Democratic voters in those districts will obviously not vote for a Democrat. https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_House_of_Representativ...

This is polling data. You have to read the question. In this CNBC poll[1], the question was "which party do you want to control Congress?" and the Republicans came out ahead.

In this[2] Harvard poll, the question was "would you be more likely to vote for a Republican or a Democrat in the midterm" and it was a 50/50 tie.

Generally, I think OP's conclusion is correct. There is a tendency in this bubble to assume that the GOP is dead and unsupported, but that is not the case.

[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/20/gop-holds-big-leads-on-key-e...

[2] https://harvardharrispoll.com/key-results-october-3/

Re: New Jersey legislators aim to ban most in-car subscriptions

#79
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the congressional vote, which suffers from gerrymandering. In raw numbers, far more people support the Democrats than the Republicans.

It's the generic congressional vote , which is simply the percent of people polled who prefer either party. It's analogous to the popular vote for President, not the percent of seats either party is predicted to win.

All the surveys are only of "likely voters". People who live in heavily gerrymandered districts tend to say "I'm not planning on voting". Also a lot of younger people who generally support Democrats aren't even included in the surveys.

Re: New Jersey legislators aim to ban most in-car subscriptions

#80
This is a great step. Subscriptions errode first sale protections by subscription-gating physical objects, allowing OEMs a work-around to first-sale doctrine. If you buy something, you should own it, and be able to fix it, scrap it, re-sell it, whatever you want.

It's interesting NJ included self-driving in the subscription ban. These require significant overhead in compute, engineering resources and greatly impact safety, and if Tesla's pricing is any indication of overall market, FSD will cost a pretty penny.

If full self-driving was offered at 10k up front for the life of the car, or $80/mo, I would imagine many buyers of lower-end vehicles would prefer a subscription.

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