When people take boardgames a bit too seriously.
:-P
Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura
41–50 of 263 posts
Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura
#42Great, talk is cheap. Let both sides show their proof, if there's any.
Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
His chess career. He most certainly has a wealth of other opportunities, and I tend to think of these chess grandmaster types as very capable of being very good at a lot of other things.
Man, I really hope nobody treated Brittney Griner like that when she came home... "Hey, I know you're an Olympic athelete who has been unfairly persecuted for overblown doping allegations, but... have you ever considered a career in journalism?"
Yeah... In that example though it's a basketball player caught with vape pens in her luggage, not olympic doping. The big difference is that she's not harmed her reputation with her behavior, like Hans has (or she would have were it Olympic doping). For better or worse, we care about how people represent themselves, and at least in the US vape pens don't impact your reputation like allegations of cheating do.
Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura
#44Can someone explain something -
Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating).
In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it.
In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascendance?
This is what I'm trying to understand - both scenarios seem so wild to me. Either (a) this guy is cheating a pro-level chess (totally wild) OR (b) he's on a crazy ramp-up of skill (totally wild).
(a) is pretty self-explanatory.
(b) is what I want someone to explain - if this is the scenario, just how crazy is the rate of his skill increase?
Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura
#45Pretty wild >FIRST CAUSE OF ACTION (Slander – Against All Defendants) >SECOND CAUSE OF ACTION (Libel – Against All Defendants) >THIRD CAUSE OF ACTION (Violation of the Sherman Act, 15 U.S.C. § 1, et seq. – Against All Defendants) >FOURTH CAUSE OF ACTION (Tortious Interference with Contract and Business Expectancies – Against All Defendants) >FIFTH CAUSE OF ACTION (Civil Conspiracy – Against All Defendants) And he is…
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The baseline from Alex Jones' cases is significantly higher: Jones built a multibillion dollar company off of slanderous lies about grieving parents and dead children. I don't think anybody in this context is worth close to that much, has had nearly that much public influence, etc.
Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
(Excellent username, btw.) Why wouldn't he win? As you mentioned, nothing has been proven, and yet in the "court of public opinion" he's already guilty and is the butt (in the literal sense) of jokes all due to the insinuations and accusations from Mr. Carlsen, the chess tournament hosts, etc. This guy's reputation is in shambles and yet hasn't been formally charged with anything and there's no hard proof anywhere (A…
> nothing has been proven The court cases won't be about whether he cheated. They'll mostly be about whether the people he's suing could legally say the things they've said.
The legality may depend on whether he cheated or not. Truth is an absolute defense to libel.
Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
His chess career. He most certainly has a wealth of other opportunities, and I tend to think of these chess grandmaster types as very capable of being very good at a lot of other things.
Man, I really hope nobody treated Brittney Griner like that when she came home... "Hey, I know you're an Olympic athelete who has been unfairly persecuted for overblown doping allegations, but... have you ever considered a career in journalism?"
Griner is accused of some drug offenses, but AFAIK not doping. She's not accused of cheating in her sport.
In either case, she may well be too old to continue playing competitively when she comes back. But both she and Hans might still find careers in the sport as coaches. By all accounts Hans is an excellent player, even if he's cheated, and a former cheat could still find modest work as a coach.
Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura
#48Can someone explain something - Assume for a moment Hans did not cheat (aside from the times he admitted to cheating). In the scenario where he did not cheat - how amazing is his performance? I.e. beating Magnus, Elo rating, etc. I know chess.com did an analysis, which I've read, but I'm hoping someone more impartial could explain it. In the scenario where he did not cheat, is he really on a Bobby Fischer-like ascend…
His rate of improvement, assuming no cheating since his ban in 2020, is a faster ascendance than any other player in history, including Bobby Fischer. So yes, assuming he suddenly quit cheating cold turkey, his performance would indicate he is a once in a generation talent and could easily become the best in the world, according to the Chess.com report.
Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura
#49Aaaaannd any last remaining respect I had for Hans is now gone.
Why? If he’s innocent, this seems like a reasonable lawsuit.
I mean we know he cheated before, he's said as much. Now, I don't know if he actually cheated in the match with Carlsen, but Carlsen had every reason to believe the man would and did.
Which would make libel and slander pretty untenable by my limited understanding.
Re: Hans Niemann Suing Magnus Carlsen, Chess.com, and Hikaru Nakamura
#50It's going to be interesting to watch someone with a documented history of cheating try to claim they were damaged by being called a cheater.
I think him being damaged by being called a cheater is incredibly obvious, it has materially impacted his future earnings directly, and it has also had a significantly impacted his reputation beyond what the prior cheating allegations did. Magnus and Hikaru are two of the biggest chess celebrities on the planet, and Chess.com (According to Hans himself) has the best anti-cheat team in the chess world. Being accused of cheating by these individuals publicly, as well as being accused to cheating RECENTLY, both have severely impacted his reputation.
I don't think the legal question is going to be establishing that Hans has faced harm. I think that's self-evident. The interesting question is more did Magnus Carlsen's/Chess.com's/Hikaru Nakamura's statements amount to Libel/Slander?
My money is against Hans. Libel/Slander is hard to prove in the US.