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Ask HN: How to overcome job search exhaustion?

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Re: Ask HN: How to overcome job search exhaustion?

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If someone is actually way smarter than me, my concerns would be: 1. Would they get bored or frustrated here? 2. Are their people skills good enough for the role? 3. How long do they plan to be here? 4. What do they expect from us? But I’m a generalist and find being the dumbest person in the room to be very educational. :)

What is their ethics and motive? This is #1 question regardless of smartness imo

Absolutely. I was thinking of that as part of my #4 but it's important enough to have its own bullet point.

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome job search exhaustion?

#62
Similar situation here with over 30 years experience. Early on there were some obvious flaws in my resume, cover letters, and interviewing. Some of that can be fixed and some of that is just me being anxious and autistic which isn't going to completely go away though to some extent that can be controlled. In general there is a problem that I mostly interview with people who have around 5-15 years of experience and to them my resume and skill set don't fit in the usual boxes.

Many replies in this thread are suggesting that there is one thing going wrong but in my case a potentially interesting conclusion is that there are lots of different failure modes coming up. Mostly things come apart in coding evaluations where I get nervous and make mistakes and in general go too slow. Other points of contention that have come up is a lack of experience with specific tools and libraries involved in the work. Experience and methodology with testing and ideas about management is also a big deal. Several interviews have gone off the rails when my take on Agile didn't completely mesh with what companies are doing. So it is good to always look for what in yourself you can improve but also be aware that no one is completely perfect and in many cases even one minor issue can prevent an offer from being made.

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome job search exhaustion?

#63
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is always office politics and no-one wants a new guy that they perceive as a potential threat. It's not just someone they might think is 'brighter' but someone that seems experienced and senior enough to have a good shot at taking over or being promoted over them.

An incompetent hire is far more of a potential threat than a competent one.

There's quite a gap between competent and threat, I think...

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome job search exhaustion?

#64
If you need a job, any job, try consulting companies. Often they just need warm bodies and if you are minimally competent and aren't a jerk in the interview you will be ok.

Definitely get some mocks if you can. There may be something that is easy to fix that you are unaware of.

For better jobs, it is not easy right now. On my most recent job search I had 1.5 offers from big tech (congrats you passed but no more hiring this year!), and 30-40 rejections, from the other big tech, to large enterprise, to small startups. If you are only going for the big jobs, might be time to just chill for a while until things start to thaw.

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome job search exhaustion?

#65
It's really hard when there isn't much feedback provided.

Tech interviewing sucks because it asks you to present linear in the interview to measure alignment but the work is anything but linear most of the time.

The phrase be so good no one can ignore you comes to mind for me, but that isn't the only or best way. There is a book by that name that might help you find things about you that you undervalue but are very unique and valuable compared to the rest.

I try to think about it in terms of "how many other candidates that you are speaking with have done x?"

While searching, spend as much time learning and building something not just with emerging tech but maybe some things you see int he job posts. Level up. Setup a Youtube channel with a daily video journal of what you're learning and keep it in line with a daily slide deck. Embed both in the resume as a link so any technical person seeing it can get to meet you and see how you communicate well before they start interviewing.

Ask for feedback on what you could add to your skillset or present differently on from each interview. Maintaining that kind of relationship will help them keep you in mind and hopefully you get some meaningful input.

Attend a lot of meetups and local groups for tech, software, or whatever in your area. You will meet employees and the more you can show and tell there as a beginner and as you get to know them they will naturally invite you to things you might be a good fit for without asking. The route of an invitation is much better than applying online.

Applicant tracking systems are pretty poor filters, and then HR also is a poor filter because they are illiterate in tech for the most part and play keyword bingo. It's true you can get in front of someone technical and work through that process, but having a warm intro and learning about the company by dropping by to meet someone for lunch, and then learning about it can go a very long way when something becomes available, or a new initiative is in place.

If you do find any of the above helpful or useful, happy to chat as peers via email (anyone). Finding and securing your next opportunity to improve your life shouldn't be this hard.

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome job search exhaustion?

#66

If you have done 40 interviews, you are clearly qualified for the roles. I think you need to be more selective about what roles you apply to, and spent more time preparing for the interviews. Answer basic questions like why are you applying to that company? What do you gain from that role? People can smell desperation. I only started job searching seriously in July and I even took 2 weeks off in August. I was also un…

>Answer basic questions like why are you applying to that company? What do you gain from that role? People can smell desperation.

Question for you: When you get this sort of question, do you answer honestly, or "honestly"?

My current company has been in a pretty steep decline in terms of quality. I feel that they undervalue the work that I do, do not pay me appropriately for the work that I do, are skirting around fundamental things (like paying for job-related education/certs/etc.), and are just generally mismanaging the company.

I don't have a problem saying those things - I believe in honesty - however, I realize that me going into an interview as a complete stranger and telling them all of these problems would give that company a very negative perspective of myself. "This guy doesn't even know us, and if this is how he talks about his current employer, he'd probably talk about us the same way too. Pass."

Instead, I try to find related-truths, and avoid the direct issues. "I'm looking to see what else is out there, and find new technical challenges. I feel like I have done a lot of good work and that my current company is in a good position, but I don't want my technical skills to deteriorate, so I'm looking to keep my skills up-to-date by tackling new problems."

It seems to get a generally okay response, but I don't know if that reeks of some kind of "desperation" or not. What is your opinion on something like that be? I'm struggling to be both truthful, sincere, and give an actual answer, not just "corporate-speak" with buzzwords and non-statements.

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome job search exhaustion?

#67
post #37

Assuming you are making it to final rounds, 40 interviews, at an average of 6-8 per company, means you have been rejected by 5-7 companies. If you are aiming for only FAANG-equivalents then competition for the open positions is obviously intense, and your experience isn't too out of the ordinary. I'd wager the best programmer on the planet will have a You have two paths forward. Either double down, do more coding pre…

> I'd wager the best programmer on the planet will have a This made me wonder, is it true? I've often stumbled on LC tests, in ways that I (funnily enough) wouldn't have failed myself for. Off-by-ones, went down the wrong path initially but found the right one and ran out of time, that kind of thing. I suppose it depends on where you set the bar.

What are people's experiences? The worst cases for me is when it's an ambush. Talking about architecture or experience and then suddenly the guy wants a DP solution in python.

Somehow when it's just been a test with no person there, I've actually done fine on it. Having the person there in the interview throws me off. They take me down the wrong path, or they get impatient. I did 4 online questions in an hour once, then I thought I was through to a human being, and instead the guy didn't want to put any effort into interviewing me at all, started doing other work, no feedback or anything on a question I hadn't seen.

I've heard that some people just go nuts with the Leetcode. Hundreds of questions done. I've never thought it was a great use of time since there's always more questions you haven't seen, but I wonder how good the return on effort is there.

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome job search exhaustion?

#68

If you have done 40 interviews, you are clearly qualified for the roles. I think you need to be more selective about what roles you apply to, and spent more time preparing for the interviews. Answer basic questions like why are you applying to that company? What do you gain from that role? People can smell desperation. I only started job searching seriously in July and I even took 2 weeks off in August. I was also un…

>Answer basic questions like why are you applying to that company? What do you gain from that role? People can smell desperation. Question for you: When you get this sort of question, do you answer honestly, or "honestly"? My current company has been in a pretty steep decline in terms of quality. I feel that they undervalue the work that I do, do not pay me appropriately for the work that I do, are skirting around fu…

A litany of gripes about your current employer is generally not a good look in an interview. Positivity is better than negativity. Why do you want to work for the company you're interviewing with? It can be inferred that you likely have some complaints about your current role but you probably don't want to give the impression that you'll take whatever you can get because any port in a storm.

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome job search exhaustion?

#69
Principal Software Engineer here, 25+ years, been a team lead, and architect.

Frankly: You are "on tilt." Every interview you take right now, you are throwing out an opportunity.

"It looks like I will be unemployed until the next year and I have no idea how to get a job." - This is a self fulfilling prophecy.

If you believe that... stop interviewing and rest, let yourself recover from the burnout and grind of interviewing. Let yourself feel like actually wanting to interview and work again.

After that:

Go back to the leetcode grind, make sure you are RAZOR sharp. Make sure you learn from the stuff people post to brag. Start writing stuff you'd brag about.

How do I know all the above: I've tried not doing it, and doing it... I can tell you resting is MUCH better, and the market reacted MUCH more positively to me. I'm talking in terms of offers etc, not just the feedback.

Re: Ask HN: How to overcome job search exhaustion?

#70
post #25

I don’t know OP, I’m a tech lead who has done his fair share of interviews and based on your few comments on HN there seem to be some red flags with how you’re viewing the interview process. Saying “one person derails things because I’d outshine them” seems to externalize the blame. I don’t know that I’ve ever worked with any engineer who thinks they’d be worse off by hiring an extremely intelligent engineer. I’d lov…

this. Worth interviewing with someone you know and see how you do. I interviewed a gent once who was very smart but talked my ear off, including cutting me off multiple times. After 45 mins of this, I stopped him and bluntly gave him this feedback. He was stunned and then thanked me as he realized he had been failing interviews because of this and no one had told him. I didnt hire him, but he was very appreciative an…

One of the best engineers that I've ever met is fundamentally unhireable due to the severity of his personality. He's not even a bad guy -- he's very helpful always but unfortunately everything he says just sounds smug or sanctimonious. He can't help himself.

It's been sad watching his career struggles and knowing the quality of his work if you can just keep him away from stakeholders and meetings in general

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