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DevOps is broken

blog.massdriver.cloud

251–260 of 363 posts

Re: DevOps is broken

#251
I think DevOps team maintains infra and monitor ops so that other teams can "plug-in" their applications. For example DevOps team sets up Terraform but dev teams plug-in their own repos and configurations to use that private enterprise Terraform "cluster". Another example: DevOps team sets up Airflow clusters but Data engineer teams use them.

At least this is how the role works in my company.

Re: DevOps is broken

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is really important, and I've gotten a lot of quizzical looks when making this assertion over the years: data is owned by one and only one service. If two pieces of code assert ownership of it by mutating that data or looking past the public encapsulation of that data, then that code is the same service. If you see a queue between two services, that is usually an indication that some ownership is being transferr…

> Data sovereignty per microservice > An important rule for microservices architecture is that each microservice must own its domain data and logic . Just as a full application owns its logic and data, so must each microservice own its logic and data under an autonomous lifecycle, with independent deployment per microservice. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/architecture/micros...

The big issue I've seen is that takes a lot of work, so people cut corners. The problem is of course when you cut corners with microservices and rely on a shared database for instance, suddenly you're dealing with 40% of the costs of a microservices and 0% of the benefits.

Re: DevOps is broken

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree that 20+ years of cheap money have absolutely caused much of the complexity we see today. That's because people aren't working on problems that matter; instead, they're just trying to make VCs rich--effectively passing the buck on to the greater fool. I think this era is coming to an end, and we should see a drastic reduction in software development costs with the end of cheap debt.

I hope I'm not being pedantic here, so please forgive me. Didn't interest rates go to zero after 2008? So that's 14 years. I guess 8 years before that there was also Dot Com. Are you talking about interest rates? Thanks. Even if you're wrong, it's an interesting theory.

https://www.readmargins.com/p/zirp-explains-the-world

Is probably one of the better explainers.

Re: DevOps is broken

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DevOps has different meaning depending on who you’re talking to, even some definitions that appear similar are different in nuanced but important ways. This is always a dead giveaway that something is a buzzword Same for rest. Sometimes when people use it, it just means JSON + http requests. Other times it's supposed to be some kind of architectural style

You can always point people to the original paper that defined REST: https://www.ics.uci.edu/~fielding/pubs/dissertation/rest_arc...

Should one also point people to the original vision of OOP (by Alan Kay) when they mention the term?

Re: DevOps is broken

#255
Couldn't agree more top-level.

The other thing that this misses is that the deployments to the cloud are only half the battle. CI/CD pipelines, Dev environments, and other SDLC phases like planning and testing are just as important as terraform. Making the infra as code better and more reusable is a great step in the right direction but only part of the puzzle to making software development workflows better in the big picture.

Re: DevOps is broken

#256

> The problem is most engineers don’t want to do operations work. There's your problem. You have people who build stuff without caring where and how it runs. Recipe for disaster.

But isn't this the norm in many other fields? The engineers who design automobiles, aircraft, kitchen blenders, etc. aren't expected to maintain and repair the cars, planes, blenders. etc. after they're put into use. They go on to design other products. Architects and construction/civil-engineering firms design and build large structures and then hand them off to others to maintain. Authors generally write a book and then go on to write the next book rather than dedicating themselves to carefully curating a list of errata for a single book. There are academic authors who do play a part in churning out new, slightly modified editions of major textbooks every few years but they're not on-call and being woken up in the middle of the night to fix a punctuation error on page 982 of the physics text they co-authored.

Re: DevOps is broken

#257
Managing complexity should be job 1 for technical leadership. We've failed utterly when it comes to DevOps. The model should be Heroku-like deploys for 99% of apps/companies. Instead we have an army of DevOps experts for k8s, helm, terraform, etc. Changing an environment variable now requires a DevOps person and/or a PR in your GitOps setup. The feedback loop for troubleshooting issues in these environments is too long.

This is me right now: https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/019/304/old...

Re: DevOps is broken

#259

I have bewilderingly tried to discern why software development continues to grow more and more complex. It wasn’t always like this. There was a time when we talked about languages and OSes and libraries as if they made a difference on how much you could get done with as little people and cognitive load as possible (the claims were very much overrated, but the point was we acted like it mattered). And then it started…

It has blown me away too. There was a time where it seemed like the default "devops" strategy for startups was to use Heroku. Developers could spend all their time working on code. Worked at a startup a few years ago. We had 2 devs, and one devops guy building out Kubernetes, Docker, running on Aws. Had to constantly spend me time with him troubleshooting why this or that thing wasn't working rather than writing appl…

> We had 2 devs, and one devops guy building out Kubernetes, Docker, running on Aws. Had to constantly spend me time with him troubleshooting why this or that thing wasn't working rather than writing application code. We had like a 100 concurrent users.

I'm glad you said this. 2-dev shop here and we've used Heroku the last five years. We spend all our time developing and supporting our application and almost never worry about infrastructure. I keep getting tempted to move to K8s; Heroku is expensive for what we get and seems to have suffered some serious brain-drain. I've dabbled with K8s in side-projects and I can geek out on all the terraform and yaml stuff for days. But its probably not a great idea to inflict it on a 2-dev shop.

Re: DevOps is broken

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t hire devops, I hire infra engineers, build engineers, release engineers and: backend engineers. This is a great way to do it. There seems to be a correlation between unnecessary product complexity and unnecessary corporate complexity. Being direct about roles goes a long way towards simplifying corporate complexity.

> There seems to be a correlation between unnecessary product complexity and unnecessary corporate complexity. That's Conway's law. "Any organization that designs a system (defined broadly) will produce a design whose structure is a copy of the organization's communication structure." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law

Most of the useful insights in the Devops movement can be derived from knowing Conway's law and thinking about organizational patterns holistically. As usual the success stories get cargo culted by others without understanding the principles and thought processes that led there, and usually fail because every organization is different and has different needs. Change is hard. This will happen with every shiny new movement like Devops or Agile.

I'm sure we're due for a new one soon which will follow the same path, since people seem to be admitting that Devops has problems on here more and more. Will that cause deeper reflection? Probably not for many orgs, because soon some consultants will dream up a new brand of silver bullet to slay the immortal monster of organizational dysfunction and that's much more exciting.

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