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An account was suspended

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Re: An account was suspended

#301
post #262

I can't decide whether to be darkly amused or just depressed, watching millions of humans learn together, as if for the first time, that Government Is Hard. Much ink has been spilled on the topic of governing well. It could fairly be called the entire output of now risen and fallen civilizations. Institutions such as laws, rights, courts, judges, and citizenship are many millenia old, and people have always been will…

Its hard, but there are known ways to fix this process that Twitter just doesn't care to implement. Placing the banhammer into one all-knowing judge, jury, and executioner algorithm is a really stupid idea. Twitter's auto-banhammer power should be spread across multiple algorithms, with each one reporting back how it voted and exactly why it made its decision. The decisions should be completely transparent to everyon…

I think saying that Twitter doesn't care is too lazy a take. It has always been true, to some degree, that the aristocrats really don't care about the fate of individual peasants - they can't. They are outnumbered and don't have the capacity. But at the same time, everyone cares about acting justly. Even the most vile communist dictators who casually kill millions find it necessary to hold mock trials and explain themselves in propaganda. Leaders want to do a good job by their people. They want to believe they are just, and be seen that way. They all do.

It makes more sense to me to see these people as overworked and laboring under bad ideas, than to see them as callous. There are a lot of competing considerations - security, legal obligations, this or that socially powerful group making demands! I don't think it's so much that they callously don't care as that they are so vastly outnumbered and can only deal with so many problems.

When the internet was young, we thought very little about security. Wide open telnet ports, http without any sort of certificates, software and websites laughably exploitable. As time has gone on, we have started to realize that security is a necessary part of the price of building something, and to factor it in. No one now simply throws a service on the web without making a serious security effort.

I feel like we're going through the same process with government. We learned, via hard knocks, that even tight knit communities can't get along without at least a moderator. Now we're learning that really big communities, comparable to nations, can't really function without some of the institutions that they have historically required. I hope that we will learn the lesson and price it in; right now, we seem to be in the stone age tarpit, the peasants angry at the government over injustice, the government angry at the peasants over constant demands that they can't keep up with, no serious solutions in sight.

Technology can certainly help, but automated systems are only the implementation of laws, which misfire, and which humans are so good at getting around and exploiting. What you want, when things go awry, are rights, a set of laws, and a series of judges to which you can appeal. We assume, by inertia and analogy with our physical spaces, that we have those things, but we don't. My hope is that we can start to understand these things are necessary, and like security, instead of complaining it is too hard, simply see it as part of the problem definition.

Re: An account was suspended

#302
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've played devil's advocate elsewhere in the thread, but this is such a petty and irrelevant kerfuffle, as far as Big-Tech-Censorship goes. By Ben's own description of how the @StratecheryINT account was operated [0] -- i.e. "a new account that has posted a bunch of links (all Stratechery interviews) in a short amount of time, from multiple locations around the world." -- this is exactly the kind of low-hanging frui…

It doesn't have to be a lot of links, if you piss off the wrong people and they massreport you you're temporarily out. You can reach out to support, but I don't know that support actually ever responds to any requests. Apparently according to posts on reddit if you add your number to twitter and something happens you won't even be able to ever remove it. Similarly they have weird intransparent policies regarding what…

Wow, who would have thought that you could get banned in multiple ways on twitter? How unfair!

Re: An account was suspended

#303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the practical alternatives? I'd imagine this is an issue one would see less often on a Mastodon node, as nodes tend to have fewer users per node so moderators / admins can respond more promptly to system failures, and if one doesn't like how an admin is running affairs, one can switch nodes.

Offer reasonable options to get it reinstated of course.

Even lawyers don't hide behind the word "reasonable" this much!

Re: An account was suspended

#304

So, this all falls under the category heading of "this private company's product or service is now too important to have it denied for arbitrary or unclear reasons". This is, in fact, not a new problem; we even have a word for this kind of good or service: "utility". There was a time when phone service, electricity, etc. was just an ordinary private company that you contracted with, who could do whatever private comp…

Why is Twitter a utility? Why is any social media a utility? It is certainly not essential to conduct business or to go about one's daily life.

Re: An account was suspended

#305
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. My account got suspended a few years ago. But to be honest, it was a blessing in disguise. Twitter for me was a huge time sink, even though I followed really interesting people talking about things I was really interesting. But once I got a forced detox, I realised I just gained back hours a week to do other things. Get off Twitter. Even better, turn off that TV.

I find Twitter amazing. (though I'm currently suspended again - https://twitter.com/breckyunits ). The trick is not to have a smart phone. When I'm coding I can pop in and out of Twitter. But then when I close the lid I'm unplugged.

> When I'm coding I can pop in and out of Twitter.

That sounds like an amazing way to become slower and worse at programming...

Re: An account was suspended

#306
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Twitter would be treated like PBS? I'd love the see the faces of those 'free speech absolutists' if that ended up happening. If they thought Twitter censors too much now...

It is the official channel of many governments and worldwide organizations. The Royal Family twitter account posted the news about Queen Elizabeth's death before BBC announcement.

Those governments and worldwide organizations are perfectly capable and indeed welcome to set up websites to do exactly the same thing.

Re: An account was suspended

#307
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong tree to bark up. "Permanently" only means there is no time limit with an automatic reactivation afterwards. It's absolutely possible for a "normie" to get a permanent ban reviewed and lifted.

The point is that they're using "permanently suspended" to mean "indefinitely suspended". They could also just say "suspended".

"Indefinitely suspended" implies that Twitter might, on its own, lift the suspension at some point in the future.

"Permanently suspended" (with chance to appeal the suspension in the message) means exactly what happened here.

Re: An account was suspended

#308

Ben's account is already un-suspended, but only because he has a major presence and large audience (I would be shocked if people at Twitter didn't see this minutes into it happening or if Ben didn't have some direct line to various high up employees there). For the rest of us peasants: good luck getting help.

This is another power imbalance that is so frustrating. The account was “permanently suspended”, which you think means permanently suspended. But that only applies to normies. All the words are meaningless if twitter says otherwise. It’s really like living under a medieval king who is a law unto himself.

Permanently suspended means not temporarily suspended (for a few weeks etc). Everyone gets the ability to appeal. Whether the twitter kerfuffle affected the appeal process is another matter though.

Re: An account was suspended

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what reasonable looks like when a system has 237 million daily active users and the reinstatement system itself would be intentionally gamed by adversaries. Do we have any examples to draw from operating at that scale? Due to the Musk purchase, we have a rare public disclosure of a major tech giant's internal workings where Twitter claims ( https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/jul/07/twitter-s...…

How about an escrow-style thing? "We charge $100 to have a human look at this case, if the suspension was incorrect we reinstate the account and your money. If not, we tell you what actions you can take that would un-violate our policies so you could be re-instated." Spammers doing selenium powered spam would never pay for that, but the real folks who are not tight with large audiences would have an option.

I believe there's meat on these bones. This is the approach some states in the US use for allowing challenge to election integrity if the vote count isn't narrow enough to automatically trigger a recount... A candidate who complains can put up the money to have an individual polling district recount the votes, and if the vote count comes out different enough to change the results, the money is refunded.

I can't imagine Twitter could get away with this without it being interpreted by the regulatory bodies of various countries as a protection racket. Which is unfortunate, because I think there's potential here.

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