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Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

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Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#21

Post by stevekemp »

severino wrote: post #15
overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

I also use Ubuntu a lot, and while I'm disappointed about this Snap thing, I'm still not looking for alternatives. At least until 22.04 I could dodge snaps pretty easily, but now, since Firefox is now a snap package, things went worse, at least for me. I gave it a try and, while the experience was not as bad as I feared, I soon encountered problems with things like trying to use a smartcard reader for signing documen…

I run Debian on all my systems, and to be honest firefox is something I always maintain separately.

/opt/firefox contains the latest binary download from the official site.

The application is one that updates frequently enough that the gain is worthwhile.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#22

Post by krn »

overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

> Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch took me a lot more work to get set up but once it was it's been pretty invisible, which is how I like my OS to be.

I think that Fedora Workstation[1] is a #1 alternative to Ubuntu in terms of smoothness and ease of use. And if .deb is a requirement – then simply Debian.

[1] https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#23

Post by aliqot »

abvavgjeremy wrote: post #20
overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

Same, but I went with Debian as I wanted to stay in the .deb world.

Let me start by saying Debian rolling release is the truth.

That being said, I worry about the archaic community and contributor-tooling behind debian to be a barrier that will lead to its demise though. Makes me sad, but it is what it is. We are all getting old, and to us this interface looks normal, but to new people and those making the apps that the kids depend on, it looks like a shitshow of antiquated code.

Nobody wants to interact with savannah, it's ugly, move those projects somewhere else.

Nobody wants to use mailing lists or byzantine social arrangements through IRC just to get their package submitted.

I've got to be real with you, not a lot of people give a shit about 'free' beyond price either. Make non-free the default and put 'free-only' as the apt option. I love free software and it hurts me to say it, but there's a reason why AUR is killing the game right now. It's easy to use, easy to enter, easy to see people using your code in a mainstream OS without having to opine to holy neckbeards for the mercy to allow your package to be published.

Debian is a great OS, and I'd happily use it for the rest of my life if given the choice, but reality is staring me in the face that this won't last in its current form, and its current form won't be maintained if anything changes. It's a catch-22.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#24

Post by tyingq »

overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

Snap has also ruined Ubuntu for me, and I've moved to Debian and/or Alpine depending on the use case.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#25

Post by nequo »

severino wrote: post #15
overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

I also use Ubuntu a lot, and while I'm disappointed about this Snap thing, I'm still not looking for alternatives. At least until 22.04 I could dodge snaps pretty easily, but now, since Firefox is now a snap package, things went worse, at least for me. I gave it a try and, while the experience was not as bad as I feared, I soon encountered problems with things like trying to use a smartcard reader for signing documen…

Firefox ESR is available in a PPA that is maintained by Mozilla. Even though that's a third party, that's as close to an official package as it gets.

I'm just hoping that it will remain available until this snap thing subsides, or until I make the switch to GNU Guix or something.

Edit: It seems that the latest stable Firefox is available, too.[1] I thought it was only ESR and that Ubuntu's switch to snap was requested by Mozilla. I'm confused.

[1] https://launchpad.net/~mozillateam/+archive/ubuntu/ppa/+pack...

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#26

Post by CoastalCoder »

severino wrote: post #15
overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

I also use Ubuntu a lot, and while I'm disappointed about this Snap thing, I'm still not looking for alternatives. At least until 22.04 I could dodge snaps pretty easily, but now, since Firefox is now a snap package, things went worse, at least for me. I gave it a try and, while the experience was not as bad as I feared, I soon encountered problems with things like trying to use a smartcard reader for signing documen…

> Maybe I should give Pop OS a try...

I'm a big fan: it's like Ubuntu, but with much of Canonical's divisive changes reverted, and with a few other improvements.

I switched from Ubuntu to Pop!_OS a few releases back when I got a System76 computer. (I also use it on my Lenovo laptop.)

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#27

Post by philliphaydon »

krn wrote: post #22
overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

> Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch took me a lot more work to get set up but once it was it's been pretty invisible, which is how I like my OS to be. I think that Fedora Workstation[1] is a #1 alternative to Ubuntu in terms of smoothness and ease of use. And if .deb is a requirement – then simply Debian. [1] https://getfedora.org/en/workstation/

I went to flavours of Ubuntu (Pop/Mint) to Manjaro, to Fedora.

I love fedora, it just works. I've had 1 issue so far, NVidia GPU on Dell XPS 15. Had to disable noveau and its rock solid.

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#29

Post by silisili »

rubyist5eva wrote: post #7

of course the only comments so far are people complaining that Ubuntu sucks and their $PREFERRED_DISTRO is better I for one think Steam as a snap is a great idea, and was pleasantly surprised with them taking the feedback about the Firefox snap to heart and actually putting in the work to speed it up. I was gonna install 22.04.1 tonight (finally got fedup with Windows) but I'm gonna try this tonight instead and defin…

I don't think it's 'my distro is better' as much as it is people who loved ubuntu pissed off in the direction they went with Snaps. At least, that's my personal position.

IMO, snaps have no reason to exist other than NIH. But, if they wanted to do it anyways, fine. But it should have always been opt in, and people could for example try out the Steam snap. Instead they made everything a snap mess that rarely works quickly or predictably .

Re: Ubuntu 22.10 Kinetic Kudu

#30

Post by mkurz »

overshard wrote: post #5

I used to use Ubuntu for everything and was very happy in the massive Ubuntu ecosystem with a .deb for everything till I was forced to use Snap a few releases ago for installing even some basic utils I used on a daily basis. I then had Snap constantly hang on installs and just break for no apparent reason and waste my time debugging it. It didn't "just work" anymore. Swapped to Arch and haven't looked back yet, Arch…

Same here. Ubuntu user since the beginning (2004). Switched to Arch half a year ago, will never look back. I don't understand why Ubuntu tries hard to scare away users from what used to be a solid OS with things like Mir, Unity, snap,... Even now the modified Gnome it comes with by default. I don't get it.
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