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DevOps is broken

blog.massdriver.cloud

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Re: DevOps is broken

#41

Post by erokar »

counttheforks wrote: post #4

> The problem is most engineers don’t want to do operations work. There's your problem. You have people who build stuff without caring where and how it runs. Recipe for disaster.

You'll spread yourself too thin as a developer if you need to do a lot of ops too. Specialisation is a good thing.

You don't want a doctor who brags that she can do heart surgery, perform talk therapy and treat your skin rash. You want someone how knows a lot about your specific problem because she's prioritised it over other things.

Re: DevOps is broken

#42

Post by travisgriggs »

imaurer wrote: post #28

I feel like I need some definitions to understand this article and discussion. What is dev? What is ops? What is devops? What is system administration? What is sysadmin? I'm 47 and what is described seems like the old problems that I thought devops solved.

DevOps is a way of creating a specialization label so that people can differentiate each other and create more roles to fill at a staffing level.

Since you’re 47 (I’m 52), it’s the equivalent of hiring an “AutoConf engineer” in the late 90s.

Re: DevOps is broken

#43

Post by duxup »

dijit wrote: post #17

I’ve long held this opinion but I consistently get drowned out. DevOps has different meaning depending on who you’re talking to, even some definitions that appear similar are different in nuanced but important ways. All “devops” as a job title has done has muddy responsibilities and given many folks the wrong impression of what an operations discipline should be. There is also a lot of rewriting of history that gets…

Agreed, anytime I talk with someone about DevOps ... we end up having to hash out the entire process to really know what either of us are actually talking about. Otherwise you have these situations

"Yea the DevOps guy messed up the widget and nobody notic---"

"Wait, what is the DevOps guy doing even touching that widget.... what is even DevOps to you?"

"Bro that widget IS DevOps."

-silence-

Same applies to the topic of "micro-services".

Re: DevOps is broken

#44

Post by rr808 »

counttheforks wrote: post #4

> The problem is most engineers don’t want to do operations work. There's your problem. You have people who build stuff without caring where and how it runs. Recipe for disaster.

You mean people relaxing WFH in a unbelievably great job market dont like being on call 24/7 and supporting random stuff they didn't build. Sounds like we need a recession.

Re: DevOps is broken

#46

Post by vasco »

There must be some a rite of passage or initiation ritual that I haven't been good enough for yet where you need to write an opinion piece about the term DevOps, because otherwise I'm not sure why in 2022 we're still having to read these articles. Whoever wrote the first one has trolled an entire generation of engineers.

Re: DevOps is broken

#48

Post by thealienthing »

imaurer wrote: post #28

I feel like I need some definitions to understand this article and discussion. What is dev? What is ops? What is devops? What is system administration? What is sysadmin? I'm 47 and what is described seems like the old problems that I thought devops solved.

I’m also confused by this article. Perhaps this is more applicable to companies that develop software that is very tightly coupled with the web and cloud services. I work in the embedded industry and from my understanding (as naive as it may be), DevOps has simply meant the automation of building, testing and releasing our products to a customer accessible endpoint and is something that is life changing. It massively cuts back on manual human interaction getting our software to our customers. Perhaps since our product is not nearly as monolithic as most products that really hook into DevOps processes that can match the actual product in terms of its scale and complexity, DevOps is something wonderful that I would never define as ‘bullshit’.

Re: DevOps is broken

#49

Post by user3939382 »

travisgriggs wrote: post #34

I have bewilderingly tried to discern why software development continues to grow more and more complex. It wasn’t always like this. There was a time when we talked about languages and OSes and libraries as if they made a difference on how much you could get done with as little people and cognitive load as possible (the claims were very much overrated, but the point was we acted like it mattered). And then it started…

My theory is a variation on that, which is that the money has placed so many more people in the space you inevitably end up with more people working in different directions, the JS ecosystem especially comes to mind here.

Re: DevOps is broken

#50

Post by ndneighbor »

I had a very weird sensation while reading this where I was shaking my head disapprovingly at this article. Specifically when they were talking about the commoditization of DevOps.

Speaking personally, I used to work on a Platform Engineering team for a major multinational that rhymes with ay-do-bay. And their requirements for the workloads that we needed to be built and hosted where very unique because you have teams running completely different languages and toolchains, esp. from acquisitions. I can argue there that the template K8s setups wouldn't work.

In the author's case, the only reason why they feel the way they do is because we finally have some sense of standardization on what Infra looks like for most companies. It's no longer a question for most folks if they should adopt Docker, we have accepted images into our lives. Same for K8s (after a certain point of scale). So uh... yea. Catchy blog title to sell some thin layer on top of K8s in which it doesn't solve the root issue that they are talking about.

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