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Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#481

Post by tomp »

rkachowski wrote: post #474
tomp wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's time for an early General Election. Every trace of the Tories must be obliterated. Sounds like completely unbiased opinion. /s More seriously, I'm only interested in hearing the arguments for a general election from nominal conservative (Tory) supporters. All arguments from leftists are just "we want to win" in disguise so are completely untrustworthy. From what I understand of UK politics, Johnson won the las…

> All arguments from leftists are just "we want to win" in disguise so are completely untrustworthy. I don't understand how you can argue for an unbiased situation and then disregard the entire left side of the political spectrum. How can election results represent anything other than the will of the public?

I 100% support direct democracy but don't really see the point of having general election (i.e. electing representatives that then vote instead of you) ahead of schedule.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#482

Post by nereye »

pjc50 wrote: post #388
chrisseaton wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA It's nice that it looks this way, but the different parties and their supporters in the UK absolutely hate each other. Front-bench party members now routinely and openly using words like 'scum' and 'detest' to talk about their colleagues on the other side. I don't…

I would say that the hate between parties is not nearly as strong as the hate within parties, often veiled entirely or hidden in extremely polite language. After all, the other party is opposition, your own party is competition . I remember Jo Cox, who was the conservative who got killed? The death of Jo Cox wasn't a party political matter, it was a US-style radicalized loner.

For the record, she was a Labour MP, not conservative.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#483

Post by tomp »

smcl wrote: post #460
tomp wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's time for an early General Election. Every trace of the Tories must be obliterated. Sounds like completely unbiased opinion. /s More seriously, I'm only interested in hearing the arguments for a general election from nominal conservative (Tory) supporters. All arguments from leftists are just "we want to win" in disguise so are completely untrustworthy. From what I understand of UK politics, Johnson won the las…

> All arguments from leftists are just "we want to win" The argument is that the party is being eviscerated in opinion polling, they’ve lost the support of the public and that since they're effectively doomed they're free to do what we know they love to do - attempt to secure themselves a role in the private sector for after the election. Given that this it the Conservative party, it's not exactly a secret that they'…

The idea of "election every 4/5 years" is that in the meantime, politicians can do momentarily unpopular things.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#484

Post by iamacyborg »

lostlogin wrote: post #417
iamacyborg wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, given you example I think Keir congratulating Boris was the actual piece of theatre.

It came across well, but should do as opportunities to congratulate Boris do come up regularly.

He is a top shagger.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#485

Post by ycombigator »

petesergeant wrote: post #205
raesene9 wrote: post #19

What happens next will be interesting . At this point, a general election would be the obviously correct solution. It's clear that the conservative party don't have a platform and can't agree major policy points amongst themselves. However that would require conservative MPs to vote for it, which is the turkeys voting for Christmas so unlikely to happen, so I'd expect we'll have to wait till 2024 for that election. T…

> a general election would be the obviously correct solution As much as I'd love a GE and to see Tory MPs swept from power en-masse, that's just not how a Parliamentary system works. Everyone in the UK voted for (whether they think it or not) an MP to elect them for five years. Those MPs get to choose who leads them.

Erm, no they don't.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#486

Post by scott_w »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #458
scott_w wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Postgraduate degrees are VERY different from undergraduate degrees, typically being a year long and being a lot less integrated into the "student lifestyle." Where you spend your time as an undergrad is a lot more impactful on who you interact with and how your worldview is formed than the time you may spend as a postgrad.

He has a degree from Oxford. Which you left out to make your side look better. I think it's time to look in the mirror and see that your preconceptions and biases are making you overlook reality. Like.. obvious reality. Reality that's so obvious it's in Wikipedia info boxes.

> The difference is they all went to the same schools together.

There's a number of components to the sentence I responded to:

> same schools

and

> together

An undergrad studying PPE and postgrad studying Law are not "going to Oxford together." Instead of trying to uncover some insidious bias on my end, I'd strongly recommend doing more than a surface level scan of Wikipedia pages to "win the argument," so to speak.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#487

Post by whoooooo123 »

gadders wrote: post #48
raesene9 wrote: post #19

What happens next will be interesting . At this point, a general election would be the obviously correct solution. It's clear that the conservative party don't have a platform and can't agree major policy points amongst themselves. However that would require conservative MPs to vote for it, which is the turkeys voting for Christmas so unlikely to happen, so I'd expect we'll have to wait till 2024 for that election. T…

There was no general election when Gordon Brown took over from Tony Blair.

Nor when May took over from Cameron, when Major took over from Thatcher, when Callaghan took over from Wilson, when Home took over from MacMillan, when Churchill took over from Chamberlain or when Chamberlain took over from Baldwin.

It's extremely common in British politics for the prime minister to change without calling a general election. In fact there were only two PMs in the entire 20th century (Heath and Attlee) who both entered and left the premiership as the result of an election.

Anyone who complains about "unelected PMs" needs to read more history.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#488

Post by Nifty3929 »

whoooooo123 wrote: post #469
addicted wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK government also has an excellent civil servant corps. In reality it’s the civil service, that continues across government, that keeps the UK govt running. The elected officials are limited to providing high level directions. One of the major mistakes made by Kwarteng as chancellor was firing an extremely senior civil servant which spooked not just the civil service but also the markets, because it indicated th…

No-one wants elected officials running the government? Then why do we elect them?

Elected officials decide what shall be done, but it is up to others to actually do it.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#489

Post by [deleted] »

nprateem wrote: post #256
cm2187 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other way round. If he gets out of his limited role and engages into politics, it will be the end of monarchy.

He already has been for years. See the Black Spider memos he secretly sent to ministers, and all the secret carve-outs the Queen had. They have their grubby fingers in politics, but are just clever at hiding it.

[deleted]

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#490

Post by lostlogin »

Macha wrote: post #234
shanusmagnus wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of it is that we're in the political equivalent of "total war" -- if a politician were seen as being friendly with political opponents they would probably be destroyed in primaries by party rivals using it as red meat for how they were "soft" or an "x in name only" or some similar idiocy.

See for example the criticism of Ellen's friendship with George W Bush. Though interestingly the Obamas and Clintons don't get the same criticism for that, apart from occasionally being held up to suggest the centre left wing of the democrats isn't that different from the old bush-era republicans

Criticism of everything Obama related is next level compared to anything those others have had to deal with.

I’m not in the US and all of the names you listed have politics I disagree with.

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