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Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#471

Post by rootusrootus »

cameronh90 wrote: post #301
chrisseaton wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA It's nice that it looks this way, but the different parties and their supporters in the UK absolutely hate each other. Front-bench party members now routinely and openly using words like 'scum' and 'detest' to talk about their colleagues on the other side. I don't…

Many of the politicians insulting each other in the chamber are on quite good terms outside of it. There are exceptions, of course, and the conduct of certain MPs can be troublesome - but it is broadly good natured. If you watch closely during PMQs, you can even see the adversarial act breaking from time to time when one of them gets in a good joke about the other. Politicians being killed is clearly unacceptable and…

> Many of the politicians insulting each other in the chamber are on quite good terms outside of it.

At least up until recently, this was true in the US too. On camera, in front of a microphone, and they say the crappiest things about one another. Then a few minutes later they're shaking hands, slapping backs, and laughing about the whole thing. Hasn't even been that long since the President schmoozed with politicians from both parties as he made his way to the podium for the State of the Union. Now it's "YOU LIE!"

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#472

Post by smcl »

factcheckdec wrote: post #442
Gordonjcp wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an extremely biased opinion, and I make no apologies. I think every single living member of every Tory cabinet present and past should be strung up in Parliament Square. I'm not in any sense unclear about my views on them. We have had twelve years of disastrous Tory austerity that has comprehensively destroyed the UK's economy. What's the plan? Let them keep trying until they get something right? How long is it…

@dang, here's a member calling for the execution of members of a political party.

This is the unintentionally-funniest comment I've seen on here for a while. Thank you.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#473

Post by mpweiher »

nprateem wrote: post #256
cm2187 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other way round. If he gets out of his limited role and engages into politics, it will be the end of monarchy.

He already has been for years. See the Black Spider memos he secretly sent to ministers, and all the secret carve-outs the Queen had. They have their grubby fingers in politics, but are just clever at hiding it.

> all the secret carve-outs the Queen had

Reference? Or details for ducking ourselves?

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#474

Post by rkachowski »

tomp wrote: post #189
Gordonjcp wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will be the fourth unelected PM in six years (okay, Boris Johnson did actually win a GE after being foisted upon us, if you think that counts). It's time for an early General Election. This lot need to go. Every trace of the Tories must be obliterated. The hilarious part is, the way that polling stands right now, a General Election would result in a strong Labour majority with the Scottish National Party in oppo…

> It's time for an early General Election. Every trace of the Tories must be obliterated. Sounds like completely unbiased opinion. /s More seriously, I'm only interested in hearing the arguments for a general election from nominal conservative (Tory) supporters. All arguments from leftists are just "we want to win" in disguise so are completely untrustworthy. From what I understand of UK politics, Johnson won the las…

> All arguments from leftists are just "we want to win" in disguise so are completely untrustworthy.

I don't understand how you can argue for an unbiased situation and then disregard the entire left side of the political spectrum. How can election results represent anything other than the will of the public?

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#475

Post by squarefoot »

brink wrote: post #397
pjc50 wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? She's a Brexiteer running on an "anti-woke" platform, we need more serious people instead.

Are you implying woke is serious?

The principles are very serious; the implementation suffers from the usual risk of fighting a wrong in one direction with another wrong in the opposite direction. I still think that woke is a lot better than not woke, although they sometimes would need a reality check, which ultimately would help a lot the cause.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#476

Post by whoooooo123 »

chrisseaton wrote: post #119
hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

> they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA It's nice that it looks this way, but the different parties and their supporters in the UK absolutely hate each other. Front-bench party members now routinely and openly using words like 'scum' and 'detest' to talk about their colleagues on the other side. I don't…

> Front-bench party members now routinely and openly using words like 'scum' and 'detest' to talk about their colleagues on the other side.

No, only one front-bench political party routinely refers to the other as "scum". Stop pretending that both sides do it.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#477

Post by claudiawerner »

alva wrote: post #399
Der_Einzige wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Americans still mog, and I mean badly mog, British at actual competitive debate. This is true both in their inferior form of "British Parliamentery debate" as well as the various American styles, such as Lincoln Douglas, Policy, or Public Forum.

Definitely. I mean check out some of the recent winners of the US National Debate Championships. https://youtu.be/fmO-ziHU_D8?t=34

You may be interested in this review of their arguments and the context for their style of debate, which was far more interesting after watching the video: https://www.salon.com/2014/05/13/%E2%80%9Ci_was_hurt%E2%80%9...

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#478

Post by whoooooo123 »

yakubin wrote: post #374
karmajunkie wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

did you perhaps mean 1914? i’m not a historian but i DID watch Hamilton a few times and it really seemed like King George had quite a lot of power and authority…

Particularly since Elisabeth I came long after that date. It’s definitely not 1414.

I'd say it's 1688: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glorious_Revolution

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#479

Post by ycombigator »

PaulHoule wrote: post #433
ycombigator wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you need to read more into Thatcher and what happened under her to understand why some sections of society reacted like this. I don't know a huge amount about Regan, but I doubt you can really compare them. Britain in the late 70s and early 80s had huge issues which Thatcher addressed, but in hugely contentious ways, in some cases destroying entire industries and their communities. The structural impact of so…

I've got three books about Thatcher I am reading right now. To interpret Thatcher you need to know about the labor unrest in the UK in the 1970s. Back then there seemed to always be a strike in some chokepoint industry (Coal mining, trucking) that threw the rest of the economy into chaos, almost like a general strike. This gets talked about it in this song https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/(Wish_I_Could_Fly_Like)_Superm.…

I grew up under Thatcher in 80s Britain (also 70's but too young to see it).

Britain's problem with labour unrest was rooted in other problems. Ironically, one being a problem we are seeing again now - massive inflation.

Yes, you can definitely 'solve' the problem of industry strikes by completely destroying the industry involved.

That's one option.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#480

Post by rootusrootus »

squidbeak wrote: post #421
chrisseaton wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A cursory glance at the various Wikipedia lists of politicians assassinated in either country rebuts your last point. Huh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Congress... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_MPs_killed_in_... UK 3 in last 30 years, US 2. For a US population of 40x larger, and easier access to guns.

In your reckoning, you ignore the difference in access to politicians. UK MPs have weekly 'surgeries' where any constituent discuss issues one on one. It's somewhat harder to meet a representative one on one in the States.

The UK gets it right. Half again as many representatives as the US, while having a fifth of the population. So each MP has about 100K citizens they represent, versus each representative in the US that has more like 750K.
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