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Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#421

Post by squidbeak »

chrisseaton wrote: post #317
thebooktocome wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A cursory glance at the various Wikipedia lists of politicians assassinated in either country rebuts your last point. US political discourse is vastly more hostile than you give it credit for, as well. Veiled death threats (shooting pictures of opponents, burning in effigy, etc.) are increasingly common, particularly on the conservative side.

> A cursory glance at the various Wikipedia lists of politicians assassinated in either country rebuts your last point. Huh? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Congress... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_MPs_killed_in_... UK 3 in last 30 years, US 2. For a US population of 40x larger, and easier access to guns.

In your reckoning, you ignore the difference in access to politicians. UK MPs have weekly 'surgeries' where any constituent discuss issues one on one. It's somewhat harder to meet a representative one on one in the States.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#422

Post by hnfong »

jlangenauer wrote: post #55
bsenftner wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I think the USA is completely ruined, I remember how much worse the citizens of the UK have it. I remote worked for a London based CTO for years, with a science Phd, and to hear him discuss UK politics gave me an insight how effective propaganda and being immersed in a culture impacts one's judgement.

Reminds me of an old joke. Back in the 60s, a Soviet diplomat ran into an American diplomat on the sidelines of some conference. "I want to congratulate you Americans", says the Soviet diplomat, "your propaganda is amazing, it's much better than ours". "What do you mean?", replies the American. "We don't have propaganda?" "See what I mean!"

Still true today.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#423

Post by zimpenfish »

gadders wrote: post #353
zimpenfish wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The BBC, at least in the last few years, has definitely been, if not taken over, strongly guided by the Tories (because they hold the purse strings, control over appointments, etc. and are vocal about this whenever the BBC annoy them.)

You must be watching a different BBC. How many right wing comedians get on to panel shows? The BBC is the visual arm of the Guardian at this point.

> How many right wing comedians get on to panel shows?

I'd counter that with how many right wing comedians could be funny on general-public-friendly panel shows absent the usual "my pronouns are ..." / "I identify as ..." jokes?

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#424

Post by motogpjimbo »

SilasX wrote: post #387
frereubu wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I explain it to American friends is that any member of the public, if they have £45,000+ per year to spare, can send their son to Eton. Simple.

Is that really true though? Money is the only factor in admission? No entrance exams? No rejections for “families we don’t want to be associated with”? No special admittances for prestigious families that don’t get charged? If not, maybe that explanation isn’t a very helpful one.

The point is that the school won't reject a child because their parents don't work in a particular industry or belong to a certain religious organisation, as was sometimes the case with "private" schools previously. Both private and public schools pre-date state schools in the UK, hence the confusion over the terminology.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#425

Post by smcl »

frereubu wrote: post #396
SilasX wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really true though? Money is the only factor in admission? No entrance exams? No rejections for “families we don’t want to be associated with”? No special admittances for prestigious families that don’t get charged? If not, maybe that explanation isn’t a very helpful one.

Well, it was a joke, but to take an earnest question seriously, there are entrance exams, but they're not especially hard, particularly if you've been coached beforehand, as many of these kids will be. Theoretically no special cases, and "celebrity" would certainly be frowned on at Eton / Harrow - these are old-money families, not nouveau-riches.

The funny thing is that this entrance exam to Eton is effectively their ticket to the top, once you're there you're on easy street. Boris Johnson attended Eton, didn't achieve particularly good results but cruised into a scholarship at Oxford. I attended a decent state school and had a fellow student who had literally top grades in all the exams he'd taken (eight "1"s at Standard Grade, five "A"s at higher, five "A"s at Advanced Higher) and his application to Oxford was touch-and-go. Now, such grades do not guarantee anyone a place at Oxford as there is a lot of competition, but you can be sure that if he had two English A-levels at grade B or C[0] he wouldn't even have been considered. The application would go instantly to the bin.

This is not true of Eton (or I guess Harrow or the other public schools).

[0] - Or whatever Boris Johnson got, I can't recall exactly, they were spectacularly subpar but he's masterfully scrubbed them from the internet

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#426

Post by shaman1 »

What Curtis argues in his documentaries - that politicians now are mere birocrats at the mercy of the markets - seems truer than ever.

There is no place for decisions that do not sit well with the markets, unless you live in a dictatorship - Russia, China, etc.

That means all creative or unproven political decisions will be punished by the markets leaving us in a rather stagnant world ruled by market forces.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#427

Post by SilasX »

motogpjimbo wrote: post #424
SilasX wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really true though? Money is the only factor in admission? No entrance exams? No rejections for “families we don’t want to be associated with”? No special admittances for prestigious families that don’t get charged? If not, maybe that explanation isn’t a very helpful one.

The point is that the school won't reject a child because their parents don't work in a particular industry or belong to a certain religious organisation, as was sometimes the case with "private" schools previously. Both private and public schools pre-date state schools in the UK, hence the confusion over the terminology.

But the parent followed up and said that part isn’t true true either though:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33275396

So… what’s left to make the joke work?

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#428

Post by w0de0 »

cameronh90 wrote: post #245
hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

For all parliament's faults, it's still largely populated by well educated, intelligent individuals who are skilled orators and debaters. Even some of the most awful parliamentarians would easily talk circles around me in any kind of debate. For anyone not aware, a large number of our politicians come from a background at public schools such as Eton, and read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford. Institutions…

> it's still largely populated by well educated, intelligent individuals who are skilled orators and debaters.

Real ill luck then to find the one educated fool who is skilled in obfuscatory rhetoric for the latest PM. Reassuring to know that the rest of parliament is filled with educated good intentions.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#429

Post by divtiwari »

alva wrote: post #399
Der_Einzige wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet Americans still mog, and I mean badly mog, British at actual competitive debate. This is true both in their inferior form of "British Parliamentery debate" as well as the various American styles, such as Lincoln Douglas, Policy, or Public Forum.

Definitely. I mean check out some of the recent winners of the US National Debate Championships. https://youtu.be/fmO-ziHU_D8?t=34

Lol!!! Made my day:)

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#430

Post by brnt »

cameronh90 wrote: post #245
hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

For all parliament's faults, it's still largely populated by well educated, intelligent individuals who are skilled orators and debaters. Even some of the most awful parliamentarians would easily talk circles around me in any kind of debate. For anyone not aware, a large number of our politicians come from a background at public schools such as Eton, and read Philosophy, Politics and Economics at Oxford. Institutions…

> skilled orators and debaters.

I don't think this is quite the benefit some think it is.

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