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San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

sfchronicle.com

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Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#101

Post by throwawaysleep »

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 wrote: post #60
throwawaysleep wrote: post #48

One of my jobs is in the public service. This seems like the usual case of public servants doing everything possible to avoid someone being unhappy with them later. Consultations, union workers, tons and tons of approvals, etc. Remember, you can't really win as a government worker. The priority is not to lose. You want every little concern addressed? You want layers and layers of accountability? You want the top conc…

So how do we fix it without adding yet another layer? All the govt seems to do is add more layers.

You would need two things:

1. Actual rewards in gov for success. In the public sector, the smartest people try nothing new and do not innovate because that would be a dumb thing to do, as you are punished for failure and not rewarded for success.

Someone who delivers a big win should get a big bonus. The problem is that when that has happened, some article will get written and managers will get in trouble over it.

2. Tolerance for missteps, delays, and schedule changes.

I spend 2 weeks fixing a hard to solve bug for my private sector unicorn? No big deal. Maybe talk about it a bit in retro and move on.

In my public sector job? At least three meetings on why we missed the sprint goal. Why? As someone above wants to cover their ass on missing the sprint goal. And we will write up a several page doc on why we missed the sprint goal.

Someone takes a chance on a much cheaper contractor and it doesn't work out? They can't be dragged to meeting after meeting having to defend it. That is how you get people hiring IBM for failed project after failed project, because at least they can say "IBM is the standard practice."

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#102

Post by illuminerdy »

insanitybit wrote: post #83
vanillax wrote: post #47

I would never step foot into a public SF toliet. Last time I went in there the homeless shit all over the floor and toliet and walls. I went in and nearly threw up. A homeless person pointed and laughed at me. Fuck that.

Public toilets aren't really for you, they're for the people who have nowhere else.

That doesn't make any sense. Public toilets are for the public. Anyone who finds themselves in a situation where they need a toilet. A tourist, for example. Or maybe just someone who finds nature calling at an inopportune time. I'm sure we've all been there.

Also, even if it WAS for people who have nowhere else, that doesn't mean that it should be covered with shit.

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#103

Post by golergka »

insanitybit wrote: post #83
vanillax wrote: post #47

I would never step foot into a public SF toliet. Last time I went in there the homeless shit all over the floor and toliet and walls. I went in and nearly threw up. A homeless person pointed and laughed at me. Fuck that.

Public toilets aren't really for you, they're for the people who have nowhere else.

In any normal city, public toilets are for everyone.

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#104

Post by knaekhoved »

insanitybit wrote: post #91
tristor wrote: post #53

Paris has automatically self-cleaning public toilets all around and they cost around $200k each to build and install. There’s no way this is a remotely reasonable cost and is clearly a grift.

The cost isn't in the toilet itself, it's in all of the politics that will go into it. People will fight against it, there will be scrutiny in its design, etc.

Honestly, I might fight a public toilet near my house too if I knew the end state was that it would mostly attract homeless people who want to shoot up heroin.

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#105

Post by lotsofpulp »

msoad wrote: post #94
aliqot wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Red tape and nimbyism is hard to imagine from what I see of SFO in books, it seems like the most anti-diversity thing you can do. Can anybody from SFO relate their experience? Hard to tell these days what is editorial bias or sensationalism and what is true.

SFO is the airport. I'm very confused by this comment. We're not all working at Google right now. MTV, SFO, MPK and all of this lingo is not familiar to all

People sometimes use major airport codes as shorthand for a city or the metropolitan region the airport serves.

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#107

Post by nemo44x »

“the committee evaluates each project’s design, scale and massing for accessibility, safety and aesthetic merit.” The review process “ensures that each project’s design is appropriate to its context in the urban environment, and that structures of the highest design quality reflect their civic stature.”

This is a perfect example of why you codify requirements and any review for permitting is as objective as possible. In this case, it's totally subjective and will be abused to get money and other favors from developers that want the project.

This is pure corruption out in the open and they don't even try and hide it. They even mention that they might not need the full $1.7M and they'll find other uses for the money if it doesn't cost as much. This is theft of tax payer money by unaccountable officials.

Any extra money should be returned to tax payers and every single part and labor cost must be documented and justified.

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#109

Post by leereeves »

ceejayoz wrote: post #66
jdross wrote: post #44

I do not believe this type of public theft is due to incompetence, I believe it is corruption and grift

It's straight out of the OSS (pre-CIA)'s "Simple Sabotage Field Manual". https://gist.github.com/kennwhite/467529962c184258d08f16daec... > General Interference with Organizations and Production > Insist on doing everything through "channels." Never permit short-cuts to be taken in order to expedite decisions. Make "speeches." Talk as frequently as possible and at great length. Illustrate your "points" by long anecdot…

I'm curious when the OSS, which was both founded and dissolved during WW2, had use for that advice.

Were they sabotaging German bureaucracy, or American? Neither seems likely.

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