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Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#361
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>a miserable failure who crashed the economy. Can somebody from the UK tell us what did she do that the economy crashed, in just under two months?

Her government proposed an unfunded budget that caused a gilt market panic. Part of the mortgage market dried up. Variable mortgage rates exploded. Pension funds had to resort to emergency measures. The Bank of England had to intervene.

Don't the groups in the gilt market, mortgage market, pension funds, etc., have lobbyists that would be able to communicate their concerns and fears ahead of time?

For that matter aren't there Whitehall staff that could easily have said something?

It all seems bizarre from the outside.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#362
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not even remotely true. The Leader of the Opposition (Keir Starmer) went to Reigate, then to Leeds University. Gordon Brown went to Edinburgh University, Jeremy Corbyn went to North London Poly. Only Ed Milliband and Tony Blair went to Oxford, which is where (of the Conservative Party): David Cameron, Boris Johnson, Theresa May and Liz Truss went. Saying "living under both sides is the same thing" is also obse…

So all the names of PMs you mentioned bar one went to Oxford...

And American top politicians don’t go to top schools?

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#363
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an extremely biased opinion, and I make no apologies. I think every single living member of every Tory cabinet present and past should be strung up in Parliament Square. I'm not in any sense unclear about my views on them. We have had twelve years of disastrous Tory austerity that has comprehensively destroyed the UK's economy. What's the plan? Let them keep trying until they get something right? How long is it…

This viewpoint is both evil (literally wanting to kill people... like the "best" politicians of the 20th century! /s) and delusional (UK had approximately 0 GDP growth since 2010, like other main European countries - so I doubt it was Brexit or Tories) https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/NGDPDPC@WEO/DEU/FRA/...

So I should be tolerant of the people that have killed a couple of million people and destroyed the country?

At what point is it okay to no longer be tolerant of them?

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#364
post #284
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you mean private schools? Public school education in the UK is quite problematic.

No "Public Schools" in the UK refers to a very specific subset of fee-paying schools mentioned in the Public Schools Act of 1868 (sometimes informally includes a couple of others). Private Schools are the other fee-paying schools. What a non-Brit might think of as "public" schools are actually called "state" schools in the UK

The way I explain it to American friends is that any member of the public, if they have £45,000+ per year to spare, can send their son to Eton. Simple.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#365
The chaos is just beginning. I know that what Liz Truss did - by blowing up the finances with a massive uncosted cut to taxes was the main cause of this, but one massive problem that the Tory party is going to have to face in the next few weeks is the Suella Braveman problem. Suella is on the right of the party, she wants immigration down to the 10s of thousands, and she's correct in saying that was actually a manifesto commitment in 2019. She's basically willing to go to war for this, but the left of the party absolutely don't want this. Similarly, the right of the party absolutely do not want to increase public spending, but the left of the party will absolutely not vote to cut the things necessary to reduce public spending. The right of the party want to frack, the left absolutely do not. Yesterday, 40 Tory MPs abstained from a whipped vote to prevent a complete ban in fracking. That's right, 40 Tory MPs defied their party, refusing to allow fracking in principle even though everyone knows that fracking can't happen in practice anyway.

There is no set of policy goals that the whole of the tory party can now support, and there's no one with the legitimacy to force them into line. They can't face a general election because they know they'd lose. So their best case scenario is they do nothing for the next 2 years and hope that nothing blows up in their faces. But in reality sooner or later something will happen that will either cause the right wing of the party to blow up the party, or the left wing of the party to defect to Labour. I think at this point the most likely scenario is Boris Johnson returns, a large chunk of MPs defect to Labour, and either Johnson loses his majority or is forced to call an election anyway on the basis that he needs a new mandate to actually get anything done.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#366
post #297

This might sound crazy... but if the UK is already de facto ruled by financial markets, in the sense that the PM has to step down if the markets don't like what they're doing, maybe it's time to try prediction market-based governance for real? What would've happened if instead of simply announcing the proposal, Truss had described the proposal and the government had sponsored a conditional prediction market on the ec…

This is an interesting idea. Although if anyone has enough money to single-handedly move the market price, it devolves into a dictatorship of that person.

Robin Hanson has a paper where he argues that such attempts at manipulation won't work: https://mason.gmu.edu/~rhanson/biashelp.pdf

Based on the abstract, I think the essential argument is that a market manipulator acts as "dumb money", attracting "smart money" who are happy to profit by bringing the market back in line with reality.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA It's nice that it looks this way, but the different parties and their supporters in the UK absolutely hate each other. Front-bench party members now routinely and openly using words like 'scum' and 'detest' to talk about their colleagues on the other side. I don't…

A lot of it is theatre. For example keir starmer congratulating boris on the birth of his child, i think, and sounding sincere. Then pretty much in the same breath, he lashes out at him on some policy or scandal. English people banter a lot more then americans, so its not taken personally.

I mean, given you example I think Keir congratulating Boris was the actual piece of theatre.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#368

I think the relevant question is, why did a Thatcherite monetary policy collapse overnight in 2022 when it didn't in the early 1980s? One reason is that the British nationalized services that Thatcher sold off to private investors in the 1980s (railroads, electricity, etc.) no longer exist, other than the national health service, which the British public would riot over if it was privatized. With nothing left to cann…

In essence, the sell off and loosening of financial regulation expanded the credit but where do you go from there. You can't resell off, there is limits to how far you can loosen regulation. In fact her tax cuts meant more borrowing, especially given she ruled out budget cuts (perhaps not in real terms as inflation was essentially cutting it anyway). Even the remnants of Thatcher's government considered it ludicrous.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#369
post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This will be the fourth unelected PM in six years (okay, Boris Johnson did actually win a GE after being foisted upon us, if you think that counts). It's time for an early General Election. This lot need to go. Every trace of the Tories must be obliterated. The hilarious part is, the way that polling stands right now, a General Election would result in a strong Labour majority with the Scottish National Party in oppo…

> It's time for an early General Election. Every trace of the Tories must be obliterated. Sounds like completely unbiased opinion. /s More seriously, I'm only interested in hearing the arguments for a general election from nominal conservative (Tory) supporters. All arguments from leftists are just "we want to win" in disguise so are completely untrustworthy. From what I understand of UK politics, Johnson won the las…

It's important to note that in the UK we do not vote for a PM we vote for an MP in the seat we live in.

I'm not a labour supporter, but I'd like to see a general election as it's obvious that the conservatives can't agree internally on a policy platform or candidate to lead. They are split between an authoritarian group and a libertarian group who don't want the same things at all.

Johnson lost due to repeatedly lying to parliament, plus a large number of unforced errors where he ended up having to perform U-Turns after choosing badly and then being forced to change by events. Covid was part of that, but far from the only part of that.

Ideally the UK should have a system of proportional representation, so that the bits of the different parties that actually agree on policies could form their own parties (Labour has similar split problems to the conservatives, but along different axis)

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lost the confidence of the market for UK government debt pushing up borrowing costs for government and for others (as well as causing problems for pension funds who own that debt). She did this by launching a series of unfunded tax cuts and doing so without an assessment of the impact on the UK's finances.

> She did this by launching a series of unfunded tax cuts Another interesting difference between the US and UK. Republicans do this routinely in the US, and have done for many decades now. The last Republican president who didn't do this was George Bush (the first one). After promising "no new taxes" during his campaign, he later agreed to do the fiscally responsible thing and raise taxes in order to offset spending…

US can run jaw-dropping debt-to-GDP ratios that are the envy of other nations thanks to $ being the world's reserve currency. US protects this privileged status religiously by any and all means - economic/diplomatic/political/military.
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