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San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

sfchronicle.com

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Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#71
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incompetence and bureaucracy seem more likely.

Por que no los dos. All the waste of money was done above the table and according to official government process. On one hand it's just a bunch of people who DGAF about the big picture doing their jobs and nothing more. On the other hand it walks, floats and quacks like the graft duck.

Incompetence looks like graft too... doesn't make it graft.

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#73

> San Francisco, which is struggling with a troubling homelessness and public-defecation crisis, needs more public toilets. The irony in this statement, given the reasons why this toilet costs so much, is absolutely unreal. I had to check the date on this article to make sure it wasn't an old April's Fools skit or something, but it seems red tape and NIMBYism have escalated to such a degree in SF that (a) securing bu…

Attacking the root causes would mean admitting that they have no idea what they’re doing, that they’ve been running full speed backwards and that their political opponents were 100% correct. Or they can spend more public money and keep running backwards while claiming victory.

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#74

If you think about some of the really interesting architecture of San Francisco, do you think they could be built now? Imagine trying to get the golden gate bridge built today. At some point you have to accept that not everyone is going to like every aspect of your plan and tell them to go pound sound or nothing will ever get done.

This is exactly the problem. As someone who has been observing 'the process' closely in my own city, as we struggle to build enough homes, this piece really hit home:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/04/local-gove...

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#75
$1.7M is approximately the construction cost for a ~2000 sq ft rebuild in the suburbs. So that does seem a bit high to construct a single 150 sq ft bathroom.

Probably the mistake is undertaking such a small project to begin with. It sounds like there are many fixed overhead costs (such as environmental review) that must be paid regardless of project size. Maybe you could have a 1,000 sq. ft. bathroom for $2 million, or an entire 10,000 sq. ft. park for $4 million.

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#76

One of my jobs is in the public service. This seems like the usual case of public servants doing everything possible to avoid someone being unhappy with them later. Consultations, union workers, tons and tons of approvals, etc. Remember, you can't really win as a government worker. The priority is not to lose. You want every little concern addressed? You want layers and layers of accountability? You want the top conc…

So how do we fix it without adding yet another layer? All the govt seems to do is add more layers.

We start regarding public servants with some respect instead of someone to be yelled at.

A culture shift.

You are right more regulations/another layer isn't going to help.

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#77
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Por que no los dos. All the waste of money was done above the table and according to official government process. On one hand it's just a bunch of people who DGAF about the big picture doing their jobs and nothing more. On the other hand it walks, floats and quacks like the graft duck.

Incompetence looks like graft too... doesn't make it graft.

Where does the line get drawn?

This looks a lot like the "I'm gonna pay you $100 to F-off" scene from Trailer Park Boys where the money is being given to parties who would usually whine if there wasn't something "in it for them" (the unions, the NIMBYs, the politicians, etc.)

Surely the fact pattern doesn't meat the legal definition of graft but if the entity doing the paying out wasn't the government a negligence tort would probably fly so it kind of begs the question why this fact pattern is acceptable.

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#78
post #45

The Arts Commission’s Civic Design Review committee will be responsible for conducting a “multi-phase review” of the project, like it does for all projects on public lands. Before the project is put out for bid, it will be subject to review under the California Environmental Quality Act, according to the Chronicle. The public toilet will be built by union workers who will “earn a living wage and benefits,” according…

I mean there is nothing wrong with the whole "built-by-union-workers"-thingy. its more all of the Bureaucracy involved thats stupid.

There's a lot of issues with it. It's de facto bribery to buy votes from labor unions. If a union can win the job in a free and open auction then so be it. But it shouldn't be awarded to them just because.

There's a reason we have transparency in the bidding process for government work. This is cronyism.

Re: San Francisco is spending $1.7M on one public toilet

#79

I would never step foot into a public SF toliet. Last time I went in there the homeless shit all over the floor and toliet and walls. I went in and nearly threw up. A homeless person pointed and laughed at me. Fuck that.

You probably don’t want to step in SF ever. FTFY.
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