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Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#131

Post by voisin »

evgen wrote: post #114
ranko wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling an election is now back in the hands of the government (not parliament) since the repeal of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act; a PM can ask the monarch to call an election without having to get the agreement of parliament. Neither the current nor next PM (whoever they end up being) is likely to do this if the polling numbers are anything to go by, of course. I think the only other way an election can be called i…

Technically speaking, King Charles III does not actually need to PM to ask in order to dismiss parliament and force a new election. Given that Charles I and Charles II both dismissed parliament maybe Charles III will grow a pair and do the same. It is somewhat ironic that while dismissing parliament caused the downfall of the monarchy for Charles I is it likely to buy a significant amount of time for the monarchy if…

> it likely to buy a significant amount of time for the monarchy if Charles III does the same.

Can you expand on this? Is it just because he would be more popular if he dismissed parliament and another election was called?

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#132

Post by fragmede »

HelloNurse wrote: post #102
hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

> a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the naked resentment and hatred that seems to be all we have left in the USA. Do you think it is real hatred or kayfabe?

Circa 2014, George Mitchell (D-Maine), Bob Dole (R-Kan.), Tom Daschle (D-S.D.) and Howard Baker (R-Tenn.) were known to be IRL friends. But that was back then. These days I think the hatred is more real than not.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#133

Post by frereubu »

hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

I don't think you should caveat that by saying it's "just aesthetic". It's at the heart of politics - how you say something carries a great deal of meaning, not just the words themselves. Witness the difficulty of good written communication. Unfortunately the tone in the UK is worse than it was, lead by a good dose of unhinged rubbish on social media: https://twitter.com/flashboy/status/1582784766222684160

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#134

Post by castis »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #105
uniqueuid wrote: post #10

Now if only there was an instrument to create legitimacy for leaders, something where the entire population could make their own choice heard in a binding way. We could call it election.

The entire population was able to vote to elect the party, and the party then elected her as PM. Her position was 100% legitimate, whether you like it or not.

Legitimate only means that the :rules: were followed and nothing more. It does not mean that the rules or the system they reside in are just.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#135

Post by Yizahi »

chunkyguy wrote: post #94
akudha wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Britain, Brazil, Australia, Philippines, India, Turkey, U.S … it is mind numbing that of all the good, talented people these countries have, only the dumbest, worst of the worst end up in positions of power. Depressing. At this point, we can just randomly pick a citizen to be President or PM. We might have better chances that way

That kind of highlights a flaw in the democratic way of doing things. It's a good system but can be gamed if you know how.

Actually in a lot of problematic cases the elections were "rigged", in different severity stages of "rigged" of course. Gerrymandering, restricting voting so that some groups are excluded, electors, for-life politicians (lords), and so on. And of course the usual dirty manipulations in the worse countries.

I think if somehow true democratic voting was magically implemented world wide, then a lot of assholes would be voted out and quickly. Even in countries where people are electing sociopaths.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#136

Post by screye »

akudha wrote: post #45
nemo44x wrote: post #7

Imagine rising to the ranks of prime minister of one of the most influential countries ever and for your legacy to be a head of lettuce out-survived your reign. That the Queen literally died the day after meeting you. Unbelievable.

Britain, Brazil, Australia, Philippines, India, Turkey, U.S … it is mind numbing that of all the good, talented people these countries have, only the dumbest, worst of the worst end up in positions of power. Depressing. At this point, we can just randomly pick a citizen to be President or PM. We might have better chances that way

> Britain, Brazil, Australia, Philippines, India, Turkey, U.S

I know it is fairly popular on HN to say that any party that is coded ring-wing is terrible. But, I genuinely think that there isn't a single person with enough nuanced knowledge of even 3 of those countries at the same time to make any kind of sweeping political statement about them.

What makes you think that countries or opposition parties with less spotlight have more competent leaders? Name a country of any decent size and I'm sure citizens of those nations will flock to the comments talking about how messed up their political system is. Politics is messy, by definition.

> dumbest end up in positions of power

The hubris of us highly-educated workers to think that degrees or 'elite coded appearance' are what define intelligence. The likes of Boris and Modi are political geniuses with carefully cultivated identities and a keen understanding of the landscape.

> randomly pick a citizen to be President or PM

I know you mean this in jest, but political power doesn't come merely from titles. They'd just end up manipulated by the same 'powerful politician' anyway. I picked on this strawman because it demonstrates that politics is not a vice that can be eliminated from positions of power, it is the very mechanism by which struggles for power function.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#137

Post by frereubu »

cjrp wrote: post #117
hairofadog wrote: post #90

I know this topic is important in substance and the thing I'm about to say is an aesthetic issue, but as an American watching this unfold I have admired the Brits for the sense of heart that still seems to be present in their politics. I'm referring to the parliamentary sessions in which, even though they're savagely roasting each other, they're doing in a way that feels somehow good-hearted and doesn't lay bare the…

Parliamentary conduct is fairly strictly policed. That said, you can still jeer and yell in a way which would be unacceptable in 99% of professional workplaces.

I think the fact that yelling and jeering is allowed actually helps somehow. It's like it releases some of the pressure rather than people bottling it up and exploding.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#138

Post by klelatti »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #105
uniqueuid wrote: post #10

Now if only there was an instrument to create legitimacy for leaders, something where the entire population could make their own choice heard in a binding way. We could call it election.

The entire population was able to vote to elect the party, and the party then elected her as PM. Her position was 100% legitimate, whether you like it or not.

It would be a reasonable comment if Conservative MP's - who are elected by voters - had chosen her. However, Rishi Sunak was their choice. Instead she was chosen by a bit more than 100k members.

Re: Liz Truss resigns as UK prime minister

#140

Post by Macha »

coldpie wrote: post #121
samwillis wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think whoever is elected as the next Conservative leader needs to call a general election immediately. There is no mandate for a government formed by yet another Tory leader. The world is such a different place to 2019, there is no way they can argue that they are a continuation of the previous mandate.

Do I understand correctly that you're saying the people who control the gov't right now should choose to call an early election that they're almost certainly going to lose? That seems unlikely.

Morally correct and politically intelligent are directly opposed here.

They morally should put it back to the people as they've failed at it internally twice, but nobody seriously expects them to intentionally do it.

They could accidentally find themselves cornered into it if they can't pick a new leader

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