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Most people on antidepressants don’t need them

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Re: Most people on antidepressants don’t need them

#51
I have these friends. Husband and wife. Rich. Academic. Political. Both on antidepressants.

They get a dog. Beautiful white german shepherd.

Dog is a bit wild. So they consult a "dog psychiatrist".

Psychiatrist puts dog on antidepressants.

Why not a few weeks of Doggy Dicipline Academy? It's common to get german shepherds a bit of training.

"Nope" says the psychiatrist. "That would be cruel".

They worship that psychiatrist. Dingalings.

Re: Most people on antidepressants don’t need them

#52
post #2

You could probably swap "antidepressants" for any number of drugs and it's still a true statement.

For most other drugs the effectiveness is openly disclosed to patents. Also most other drugs have fewer, rarer, less severe side effects. And most other drugs can be stopped and started much more easily...

Re: Most people on antidepressants don’t need them

#53
post #2

You could probably swap "antidepressants" for any number of drugs and it's still a true statement.

I think antidepressants are getting the spotlight because some (many) were approved with only a slim I get the feeling that drug approval laxed for a good while and let these slip through [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17264159/

Without knowing the exact approval history in the US, I doubt that it is a lax approval process as much as it is an absence of better alternatives.

There are not really any known effective clinical interventions (be they in the form of medicine, therapy, or things like more exercise), and a 10% improvement is better than nothing (clinical therapy (notably Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) is generally believed to be more effective but not by that much and it is financially out of reach for many people who are able to afford medication).

Re: Most people on antidepressants don’t need them

#54
post #9

I'm a bit nervous about these articles clearly centred on the USA which seems to have an epidemic of private drug companies pushing all kinds of stuff via doctors who may or may not be getting backhanders to push certian drugs. I'm not saying this isn't partially true in Europe but the USA definitely comes across as choosing drugs as the first resort for many things that you wouldn't in Europe. Also, as many have fou…

> I'm a bit nervous about these articles clearly centred on the USA which seems to have an epidemic of private drug companies pushing all kinds of stuff via doctors who may or may not be getting backhanders to push certian drugs.

It's not only in the US, France as an antidepressant epidemic, studies have shown anywhere from 30% to 60% of people taking them don't actually need them. They're prescribed too easily.

Are they a good tools: yes

Do they work: yes

Are they abused: yes

Re: Most people on antidepressants don’t need them

#55
post #34

I’ve never been on antidepressants but I had a period in my life where I went through a long depression. Inevitably I came to accept I was depressed because my body was telling me something in my life just wasn’t right, and I suspected what it was but didn’t really make an effort to do something about it. Once I made necessary changes things started getting better with time and eventually I got back to normal. Howeve…

Prescription of antidepressants really should be coupled with therapy (and often is), which if done right should prompt plenty of introspection. Also in those with severe depression, functioning is so low it can be difficult to even engage in therapy or make life changes without other treatment first.

I think you make an interesting broader point though. Clinically there is not enough consideration of life circumstances when evaluating depression, in my opinion. Obviously something like a death in the family is taken into account, but from what I've seen baseline quality of life is not a huge consideration in whether depressive symptoms are clinically meaningful. I suspect antidepressants would be more effective if this were better teased out.

In any event, there are certainly interesting philosophical and policy questions here, but for an individual that suspects depression, they should seek professional help regardless. A good clinician is not going to just prescribe meds and then tell the patient they're done.

Re: Most people on antidepressants don’t need them

#57
post #2

You could probably swap "antidepressants" for any number of drugs and it's still a true statement.

I think antidepressants are getting the spotlight because some (many) were approved with only a slim I get the feeling that drug approval laxed for a good while and let these slip through [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17264159/

More on this from Derek Lowe of Things I Won’t Work With fame:

https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/uselessness-phenyl...

Re: Most people on antidepressants don’t need them

#58

The number of shills and bots for big pharma on this thread are saddening. If you want to see the real horrors of these drugs check out https://ssristories.org/ ...

Weird take, they genuinely work for 15% of people, it says so right in the article. Me included.

Re: Most people on antidepressants don’t need them

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what we've been reading this last years, it's not like antidepressants are worthless, it's like antidepressants aren't doing what we think are doing. The "depression is lack of serotonin" theories seem to have less and less base every day, but SSRIs don't only act on serotonin (just review their side effects). I've done, mostly, vortioxetine and sertraline. For some of us, some SSRIs or SNRIs work. Some don't. Pr…

I completely agree. I believe we have no idea how these drugs work at the moment. For one, serotonin receptors are _everywhere_, notably the gut, which also has a strong relationship with emotional state. And as you point out, they don't just affect serotonin. Given we have a whole bunch of drugs that attempt to be serotonin selective, but where each one affects different people in different ways, it seems likely to…

> Why would a huge chunk of the population have a imbalance of brain chemicals?

That's what I think about from time to time as well. I have ADD and take meds for it. But I'm pretty sure that I only need these meds to be able to work in an open-space, corporate IT environment with dead-lines, responsibilities etc.

Without meds I get overwhelmed and panicky quickly, when taking them they turn me into kind of an office robot who's able to work without getting too stressed out or distracted by other things.

I suspect that I wouldn't need the meds if I had a different job. Which feels weird, because it sounds like I'm trying to fit into an environment, instead of being in an environment which fits me, if that makes sense. Then again, maybe everyone has to do that and it's just my biased perspective that I'm the one who's not made for it.

Which sucks, because I love IT, also as a hobby.

The easiest examples for that: Sometimes I do an IT project at home, maybe build a PC, configure a homelab, try out Stable Diffusion or edit videos from time to time. If I do these things at home I can easily sit in front of the computer for 5+ hours and loose track of time, but I don't seem to be able to be as focused for IT projects at work if I'm unmedicated. Unless they really interest me.

Re: Most people on antidepressants don’t need them

#60
post #9

I'm a bit nervous about these articles clearly centred on the USA which seems to have an epidemic of private drug companies pushing all kinds of stuff via doctors who may or may not be getting backhanders to push certian drugs. I'm not saying this isn't partially true in Europe but the USA definitely comes across as choosing drugs as the first resort for many things that you wouldn't in Europe. Also, as many have fou…

> pushing all kinds of stuff via doctors And also pushing directly to the consumer via commercial advertising, which is very unusual. Not sure which way is right though. Maybe people have a right to know about which drugs are available, unscreened by a doctor who may not have your best interests in mind (for example they have to meet a budget, or they have religious opinions.)

I’ve always thought the fact that there are commercials for cancer drugs is very telling. Surely your oncologist will put you on what’s best, right?

I’ve never had cancer but my experience with plenty of other doctors points the other way, and that they wouldn’t be spending money on those commercials if they didn’t get a return from them.

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