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We are still early with the cloud

erikbern.com

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Re: We are still early with the cloud

#61

Post by benjaminwootton »

verisimilitudes wrote: post #55
gwm83 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, tell me how you do it much better in k8s

I don't use k8s or whatever garbage gets thrown around nowadays. I well remember my disgust when I learned AWS was just using UNIX virtual machines or whatever, rather than something simple, such as allowing people to run little functions floating in the void. I know nothing about AWS, but I've not been mistaken, right?

Lambda has been a thing since 2014 and more and more of it are “serverless” as the years go by.

EC2 was a necessary step and though and even that bought things like per second billing, autoscaling and infrastructure as code to the masses.

Re: We are still early with the cloud

#62

Post by sahila »

hulitu wrote: post #52
mgraczyk wrote: post #34

Interestingly, at Google the typical developer workflow (google3) is very cloud native. Most devs write code in VS code in the browser. Many (most?) devs don't have a physical desktop any more, just a cloud VM. The code lives in a network mounted filesystem containing a repository. The repository is hosted remotely (everyone can see edits you make to any file nearly immediately). Builds are done remotely with a share…

> Many (most?) devs don't have a physical desktop any more, That would explain the (bad) design of their software.

Not sure this follows. Their designs might be bad(?), but certainly for any UI driven applications, they do do use the native and emulated devices.

What OP means is that you ssh into a cloud machine for development.

Re: We are still early with the cloud

#63

Post by gwm83 »

we aren't early. others like Gumby here have made great posts about how the cloud has existed for decades. I don't like his silly broad ranging manifestations but okay. I've seen a lot of old shit, let's stroke off about them but it continues.

Re: We are still early with the cloud

#64

Post by gwm83 »

gumby wrote: post #7

It's crazy and destructive that we are still using the unix paradigm in the cloud. In the 70s we have transparent network fileststems, and by the 80s I had a more advanced cloud-native environment at PARC than is available today.* The Lispms were not quite as cloud native as that, but still you could have the impression that you just sat down at a terminal and had immediate window into an underlying "cloud" reality,…

Excuse me sir, are you going to pay for those?

Re: We are still early with the cloud

#65

Post by zinodaur »

verisimilitudes wrote: post #55
gwm83 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, tell me how you do it much better in k8s

I don't use k8s or whatever garbage gets thrown around nowadays. I well remember my disgust when I learned AWS was just using UNIX virtual machines or whatever, rather than something simple, such as allowing people to run little functions floating in the void. I know nothing about AWS, but I've not been mistaken, right?

Little functions in the void suck, because the void is crazy complicated and has all kinds of things you have to think about

Re: We are still early with the cloud

#67

Post by MikeDelta »

verisimilitudes wrote: post #55
gwm83 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, tell me how you do it much better in k8s

I don't use k8s or whatever garbage gets thrown around nowadays. I well remember my disgust when I learned AWS was just using UNIX virtual machines or whatever, rather than something simple, such as allowing people to run little functions floating in the void. I know nothing about AWS, but I've not been mistaken, right?

In the end, almost everything runs on some kind of OS. All those little functions in the void also have to run in an OS, but this is abstracted away from the user.

Re: We are still early with the cloud

#68

Post by furyofantares »

api wrote: post #3

I can't think about the cloud without immediately grasping its huge downsides: absolutely no privacy at all, data lock-in, forced migration, forced obsolescence, and things just vanishing if the rent is not continuously paid. I have files on my computer from the 1990s and 2000s. If we lived in the cloud-centric world those projects that I did back then would probably be gone forever since I'm not sure I would have ke…

> I have files on my computer from the 1990s and 2000s. If we lived in the cloud-centric world those projects that I did back then would probably be gone forever since I'm not sure I would have kept paying rent on them.

On the other hand, I don't have any of my 90s/2000s projects because I would occasionally lose a hard drive before transferring everything to my new machine, or would occasionally transfer not-everything and then later regret it.

I guess dropbox isn't "the cloud", but I haven't lost anything since I started paying for dropbox when it came out, and things wouldn't just vanish if the rent is not continuously paid.

I sure wouldn't mind more cloud services that improve and add to the local computing experience rather than deliver themselves only through a browser and a web connection.

Re: We are still early with the cloud

#69

Post by asim »

Everything Google is doing comes to the world 10 years later. Being inside Google is like seeing the future. They had all these technologies long ago, now it's just a case of timing and turning them into products. I've learned that sometimes the world just isn't ready for these advancements. The journey Google went on internally, everyone else has to go on for themselves.

That said. I think we're still super early in cloud because it's still about how we the developers use it and not the end advancements for consumers. The cloud has changed user behaviour through streaming services, saas and cloud based storage but I think there's far further to go. Meaning there's some cloud first, always on, behaviour shift that needs to happen with the services catering to that model. You'd say saas and cloud is already there but I think it's a lie. We're just replicating what we did locally in a remote env. The cycle of thin clients and fat servers e.g Citrix and the rest of it. A major shift is coming very soon.

Re: We are still early with the cloud

#70

Post by deepstack »

mgraczyk wrote: post #57
hulitu wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many (most?) devs don't have a physical desktop any more, That would explain the (bad) design of their software.

What? Doesn't even make sense. Why would lacking a physical desktop cause developers to make bad software?

Many developers in now and before like to have their own desk/space it helps them think. Getting ride of that space or changing may not be optimal for many developers I've worked with.
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