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Why do teachers give girls higher marks than boys? Researchers have the answer

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Re: Why do teachers give girls higher marks than boys? Researchers have the answer

#131

Post by biomcgary »

jemmyw wrote: post #110
biomcgary wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I were both homeschooled and are homeschooling our children. Their opportunities are far more diverse than if they were in school most of the day. They don't have digital device addictions and play outside 10x most other kids. They are capable of engaging people across a wide range of ages, not just those within a year or two in age. When playing with similarly aged peers, they are consistently the leader…

My kids are also homeschooled. There's a lot of benefits and fewer downsides than I expected. School was shit for me and I'm glad my kids are having a better experience. On the other hand I can't stand the evangelism of many homeschoolers such as yourself. We tend to avoid homeschooling groups. They (we? :( ) aren't good for just having normal conversations and a laugh with. > When playing with similarly aged peers,…

> aren't good for just having normal conversations and a laugh with

Absolutely true about me since I have zero interest in being normal and prefer discussing science/philosophy over chitchat. I have a son on the autism spectrum and he didn't fall far the tree. My wife, on the other hand, is much more approachable. To each their own.

> precocious brat children everyone else can't wait to get away from

Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying about the value of creative play. Other kids beg to come play with our kids because they don't get the chance to experience creative, imaginative play to the same degree in other contexts.

Re: Why do teachers give girls higher marks than boys? Researchers have the answer

#132

Post by mkr-hn »

throwaway290 wrote: post #129
haneefmubarak wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point that folks are trying to make here is that by treating these boys as actors in a system ("conscious bias to correct unconscious bias") is essentially mistreatment via failure to see and treat them as individuals. Teachers should in theory be focusing on the betterment of all of their students as individuals and it is messed up if they are intentionally treating some students worse (lower grades for…

Wait, are you saying education system in general is broken? Absolutely agreed. It's just not the topic in question. In a better system there would be no grades, but as long as we have a system centered around grades and discussing an article about gender bias in grading that's the topic. And within it it's bordering on deliberate, malevolent ignorance to say "oh no, boys are being mistreated by receiving slightly wor…

It doesn't stop at grades. That's the problem. People inclined to discriminate are not discriminating in their discrimination. When I say mistreatment, I mean being sent to the principal for made up reasons because the teacher just doesn't like you. Ignoring bullies terrorizing you right in front of her because "you need to man up." Stuff like that.

People who decide to get even by treating some people different are not good people who actually care about the people they're discriminating against. They have contempt for those people and want to see them suffer.

Re: Why do teachers give girls higher marks than boys? Researchers have the answer

#133

Post by throwaway290 »

mkr-hn wrote: post #132
throwaway290 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, are you saying education system in general is broken? Absolutely agreed. It's just not the topic in question. In a better system there would be no grades, but as long as we have a system centered around grades and discussing an article about gender bias in grading that's the topic. And within it it's bordering on deliberate, malevolent ignorance to say "oh no, boys are being mistreated by receiving slightly wor…

It doesn't stop at grades. That's the problem. People inclined to discriminate are not discriminating in their discrimination. When I say mistreatment, I mean being sent to the principal for made up reasons because the teacher just doesn't like you. Ignoring bullies terrorizing you right in front of her because "you need to man up." Stuff like that. People who decide to get even by treating some people different are…

You are still talking past me and past the topic. Please stop bringing child abuse into a discussion about slight correction of grades. Comparing these two you are trivializing the former, doing a major disservice to actual victims of abuse and bullying, being at best disingenuous and I have to try very hard to not think about what could motivate you in this crusade.

PS. I am yet to hear an argument as to how you correct an unconscious bias without introducing a conscious bias. You have presented none. Come back when you are done moving the goalposts and willing to stay on topic

Re: Why do teachers give girls higher marks than boys? Researchers have the answer

#134

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway290 wrote: post #133
mkr-hn wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't stop at grades. That's the problem. People inclined to discriminate are not discriminating in their discrimination. When I say mistreatment, I mean being sent to the principal for made up reasons because the teacher just doesn't like you. Ignoring bullies terrorizing you right in front of her because "you need to man up." Stuff like that. People who decide to get even by treating some people different are…

You are still talking past me and past the topic. Please stop bringing child abuse into a discussion about slight correction of grades. Comparing these two you are trivializing the former, doing a major disservice to actual victims of abuse and bullying, being at best disingenuous and I have to try very hard to not think about what could motivate you in this crusade. PS. I am yet to hear an argument as to how you cor…

[deleted]

Re: Why do teachers give girls higher marks than boys? Researchers have the answer

#135

Post by jemmyw »

biomcgary wrote: post #131
jemmyw wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My kids are also homeschooled. There's a lot of benefits and fewer downsides than I expected. School was shit for me and I'm glad my kids are having a better experience. On the other hand I can't stand the evangelism of many homeschoolers such as yourself. We tend to avoid homeschooling groups. They (we? :( ) aren't good for just having normal conversations and a laugh with. > When playing with similarly aged peers,…

> aren't good for just having normal conversations and a laugh with Absolutely true about me since I have zero interest in being normal and prefer discussing science/philosophy over chitchat. I have a son on the autism spectrum and he didn't fall far the tree. My wife, on the other hand, is much more approachable. To each their own. > precocious brat children everyone else can't wait to get away from Perhaps you misu…

In my limited experience having a laugh requires a good bit of intelligence and knowledge with the addition of some humbleness and a thick skin. "Normal" people spend too much time talking about how much their house cost.

> Other kids beg to come play

Jesus

Re: Why do teachers give girls higher marks than boys? Researchers have the answer

#136

Post by Alan-Woods »

My friend once told me about a story about his son, who came back home from school, crying, for what reason. My friend, who was obviously shocked, asked his son what had happened. Turns out, he got into an argument with a girl from his class, and that argument escalated, and very much turned into a fight between the two. As expected, sooner or later, a teacher showed up, and broke the fight up. Instead of sending them BOTH to detention, as the teacher should've done, she instead asked the two what had happened. The girl said that the boy hit her first because of his temper, which he didn't, that is, according to my friend's saying. Very peculiarly, the teacher asked no further questions, and sent the boy to ISS. (In School Suspension). The girl went to her next class, and unlike the boy, did not get into trouble with the teachers. The boy had to stay after school as a result of getting into detention. His father, my friend, knew about the incident, as the school had contacted him about it. He was shocked, his little boy had never gotten into detention before, and was ready for his son to come back home to explain himself. That lead up to the events I had talked about in the beginning, where he came back home, crying because of what had happened. Even today, I am still vexed as to why most schools are this way. No student should be able to escape their punishment just because of their gender, and instead, should be taught a lesson, since it'll teach them to learn from their past experience, and improve it based off of what happened.

Re: Why do teachers give girls higher marks than boys? Researchers have the answer

#137

Post by mkr-hn »

throwaway290 wrote: post #133
mkr-hn wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't stop at grades. That's the problem. People inclined to discriminate are not discriminating in their discrimination. When I say mistreatment, I mean being sent to the principal for made up reasons because the teacher just doesn't like you. Ignoring bullies terrorizing you right in front of her because "you need to man up." Stuff like that. People who decide to get even by treating some people different are…

You are still talking past me and past the topic. Please stop bringing child abuse into a discussion about slight correction of grades. Comparing these two you are trivializing the former, doing a major disservice to actual victims of abuse and bullying, being at best disingenuous and I have to try very hard to not think about what could motivate you in this crusade. PS. I am yet to hear an argument as to how you cor…

You seem determined to misunderstand and misrepresent me. I don't know if you're just having a bad day or doing it on purpose, so I'm going to move on and let you figure yourself out.

Re: Why do teachers give girls higher marks than boys? Researchers have the answer

#138

Post by throwaway290 »

mkr-hn wrote: post #137
throwaway290 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are still talking past me and past the topic. Please stop bringing child abuse into a discussion about slight correction of grades. Comparing these two you are trivializing the former, doing a major disservice to actual victims of abuse and bullying, being at best disingenuous and I have to try very hard to not think about what could motivate you in this crusade. PS. I am yet to hear an argument as to how you cor…

You seem determined to misunderstand and misrepresent me. I don't know if you're just having a bad day or doing it on purpose, so I'm going to move on and let you figure yourself out.

You seem to bring some wild things to a single simple idea of bias in grades.

Making this discussion about mistreatment and abuse is as appropriate as insisting on talking about sexual assault at the workplace in a discussion about gender salary discrepancy. Like sure, maybe you were traumatized by school experience, some of us were too, it's just not what the question is about.

You can be traumatized by school with perfectly even grades as easily as you can have the most fulfilling experience even if teacher marked you up or down slightly when grading (eg like in the paper encouraging you with lower or higher grades according to what motivates you), these are just orthogonal.

Re: Why do teachers give girls higher marks than boys? Researchers have the answer

#139

Post by mleonhard »

stuckinhell wrote: post #5

Everyday I think more and more about homeschooling my son and daughter. In business, you should never outsource your core competency. I wonder if I really should be outsourcing the raising of my kids,that I love most in the world (of course I love my husband too).

I was homeschooled and it was very bad for me. I missed the chance to learn crucial social skills in the low-stakes school environment. Learning requires making mistakes. I had to make these mistakes in my 20s and 30s at work and in social circles. My parents' decision to homeschool me had the effect of making me play life on hard mode.

Re: Why do teachers give girls higher marks than boys? Researchers have the answer

#140

Post by tpoacher »

throwaway290 wrote: post #121
mkr-hn wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much comfort to people who suffer in school because all the teachers saw them as an actor in a system instead of a person.

Again, literally the only way you correct for unconscious bias is conscious bias. Where did you get the mistaken impression that it's supposed to be comforting knowledge? If your target is X = 0, and you think or you've been told that you act as if X = -2, then you act as if X = 2 and hope for the best.

Alternatively, if your target is 0, and you've been told you act as -2 but you're really a 2, your bias correction will make you an extremist at 4.

Which is a far more common outcome of "unconscious bias correction policies" than actual progress.

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