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Phil Haack quit Microsoft for GitHub

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Re: Phil Haack quit Microsoft for GitHub

#61

Post by andersh »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #40
bootload wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"... Phil also invented C# ..." Anders Hejlsberg is credited as being the principal designer & architect of C# at Microsoft [0] and I don't see this listed on Phil Haacks resume. [1] [0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anders_Hejlsberg#At_Microsoft [1] http://haacked.com/Docs/PhillipHaack_Resume.html

Rob Conery is teasing. And Rob Connery, not Phil Haack does the "This Developer's Life" Podcast. Hence the joke. If Anders Hejlsberg replied, the thread would be complete.

Yep. The fauxhawk - that was me.

Re: Phil Haack quit Microsoft for GitHub

#62

Post by InclinedPlane »

MartinCron wrote: post #59
InclinedPlane wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit distressing that a lot of the most interesting .NET things (such as mono[touch,droid] and asp.net MVC) are either black sheep or 3rd party projects. .NET is a solid technology, but I fear it may end up having a limited lifespan due to being so heavily tied to windows, especially as the next generation of systems (tablets, non-traditional PCs, etc.) starts taking over the market.

I really don't think the ASP.NET MVC can be classified as a black sheep. Neither are things like Linq or Entity Framework. Microsoft is still doing a lot of the interesting stuff in-house.

MVC was developed skunk works style, as was Linq. And MS has only begun embracing MVC anywhere near fully lately. Meanwhile, Linq has been effectively abandoned in preference to the bloated entity framework.

If Microsoft had their heads screwed on straight MVC would be the default ASP.NET web-site project type in Visual Studio and Linq would have gotten the love it deserved, even if it competed with EF. I fear that without Haack's leadership MVC will be mishandled and slowly die off.

Edit: To clarify, I mean Linq to SQL. It was a decent, lightweight, highly usable ORM that has now been more or less deprecated in favor of EF. For now it's not so bad because Linq to SQL only just recently wandered off into the twilight, but eventually the lack of support will make it harder and harder to use and EF will be the only option.

Re: Phil Haack quit Microsoft for GitHub

#63

Post by JonnieCache »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #60
JonnieCache wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was going to have a go at that as well, (mainly the word, seriously, who says fauk-hawke? ) but I thought that'd be laying it on a bit thick. The whole 'wacky french house' thing has been done better. http://soundcloud.com/para-one/canblaster-clockworks-para-on... http://soundcloud.com/panteros666/panteros666-javelin-o

> who says fauk-hawke It rhymes with "Mohawk". "Faux" is the French word for fake, pronounced like "fow". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faux Except using a French word in the context is pretentious and phoney. Maybe there's a word for that...

I know what it means; it's a hairstyle for people who can cope with the clippers but can't handle the woodglue anymore.

It was more the ugly portmanteau (phoney!) itself which I objected to.

EDIT: although I see now that I did manage to misspell it. How embarrassing.

Re: Phil Haack quit Microsoft for GitHub

#64

Post by bradwestness »

I really hope this leads to better Git tools for Windows developers. I've attempted to host several C# projects on GitHub in the past, but I always end up giving up and using either CodePlex or BitBucket because it's so much easier to get up and running with HG and SVN.

Edit: Git tools, not GitHub tools.

Re: Phil Haack quit Microsoft for GitHub

#65

Post by bradwestness »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #62
MartinCron wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think the ASP.NET MVC can be classified as a black sheep. Neither are things like Linq or Entity Framework. Microsoft is still doing a lot of the interesting stuff in-house.

MVC was developed skunk works style, as was Linq. And MS has only begun embracing MVC anywhere near fully lately. Meanwhile, Linq has been effectively abandoned in preference to the bloated entity framework. If Microsoft had their heads screwed on straight MVC would be the default ASP.NET web-site project type in Visual Studio and Linq would have gotten the love it deserved, even if it competed with EF. I fear that w…

LINQ works /with/ entity framework, as well as with XML and generic collections. Entity Framework is not a replacement for LINQ.

Also, I think it's a natural progression for the project to start out as a "skunkworks" system, and be gradually more mainlined as it matures. It's on version 3 now, and version 4 is right around the corner.

I'd rather see it happen that way than have a huge release and a giant push onto a platform that isn't fully realized. Most "enterprise" organizations would never move onto a version 1.0 platform anyway.

Re: Phil Haack quit Microsoft for GitHub

#66

Post by sofuture »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #62
MartinCron wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't think the ASP.NET MVC can be classified as a black sheep. Neither are things like Linq or Entity Framework. Microsoft is still doing a lot of the interesting stuff in-house.

MVC was developed skunk works style, as was Linq. And MS has only begun embracing MVC anywhere near fully lately. Meanwhile, Linq has been effectively abandoned in preference to the bloated entity framework. If Microsoft had their heads screwed on straight MVC would be the default ASP.NET web-site project type in Visual Studio and Linq would have gotten the love it deserved, even if it competed with EF. I fear that w…

Linq != Linq To Sql

Re: Phil Haack quit Microsoft for GitHub

#67

Post by hkarthik »

kkowalczyk wrote: post #39
jroseattle wrote: post #9

Phil did a great job both before and after his MS career. He will do well at GitHub as well. He's one of the good guys in the C# world, and both GitHub and Microsoft will benefit from this.

Now I have to ask: who are the bad guys in C# world?

If the good guys are Haack, Hanselman, and Conery, then the bad guys are nearly everyone else.

Re: Phil Haack quit Microsoft for GitHub

#68

Post by eropple »

MartinCron wrote: post #58
redstripe wrote: post #27

When I went looking for a git win32 binaries a while ago the attitude was basically "lolz get a mac/linux box". Which is why I use hg instead of git. It's great to see an open source community, that isn't engulfed in the sanfrancisco linux/mac mono culture bubble, reaching out to Win developers for the benfit of everyone.

Which is why I use hg instead of git. I totally see where you're coming from, and I personally think hg is great. I just don't want your comment to scare windows developers off. For the record: running git on windows is great.

Disagree. It's gotten better, but the tooling is awkward, the commonly used UI (TortoiseGit) is wonky, and not being a "native citizen" on the OS isn't acceptable--MSYS is a mess to have around on a Windows machine and even the "minimal subset" that you can install with Git is more than I consider acceptable. (I realize that entirely too much of Git is UNIX-based plumbing, but that's their problem.)

I gave Git another shot when Bitbucket started to support it (I won't use GitHub, as it happens), but it didn't shake out for the above reasons. I like being able to open stuff up on any of my machines and the lack of care I perceive in Git on Windows drives me to stay with hg a lot more than it would otherwise.

Re: Phil Haack quit Microsoft for GitHub

#69

Post by jconley »

Awesome to see a hugely popular and powerful development platform getting noticed by Github. It's great technology that deserves more love and positive mindshare in the open source world.

The last startup where I was CTO was largely based on the Microsoft .NET stack and we loved almost every ounce of it as a technology. Until, of course, we tried to hire startup and open-source minded engineers in the Microsoft-hate land of Silicon Valley. That's practically impossible.

StackOverflow and (hopefully) now Github will ideally do a lot of good in the next few years to break the stigma against C#.

It seems like the C# community at large contains Enterprise-oriented folks, who only like to consume open source and not give back. They just want to get their projects done and make a profit. I wish we could see more altruistic entities and startups embrace the technology. @haacked - fix it! Github seems like an ideal platform for change in this regard.

Oh, yeah, that startup was acquired and they threw away all our back end tech for no other reason than it was Microsoft based. It's not all bad, though, I do love my shiny Macbook Pro. ;)

Feature requests: - CodePlex migration tool (I have a project there...) - Github client for Windows - Github VS integration

Re: Phil Haack quit Microsoft for GitHub

#70

Post by notatoad »

eropple wrote: post #68
MartinCron wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why I use hg instead of git. I totally see where you're coming from, and I personally think hg is great. I just don't want your comment to scare windows developers off. For the record: running git on windows is great.

Disagree. It's gotten better, but the tooling is awkward, the commonly used UI (TortoiseGit) is wonky, and not being a "native citizen" on the OS isn't acceptable--MSYS is a mess to have around on a Windows machine and even the "minimal subset" that you can install with Git is more than I consider acceptable. (I realize that entirely too much of Git is UNIX-based plumbing, but that's their problem.) I gave Git anothe…

git GUIs on windows are all pretty weak, but the git command line and git bash work perfectly well.

my experience with git GUIs in general (regardless of the OS) is that you should just give up and use the CLI.

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