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Biden cripples China's semiconductor industry overnight

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Re: Biden cripples China's semiconductor industry overnight

#11

Post by slothsinc »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #3
slothsinc wrote: post #2

Any thoughts on why this news overall isn't getting more attention? And what about the threat of taking away citizenships, is that even legal?

Is there a source on the loss of citizenship? Historically the US made it very hard to give up citizenship, I would be surprised if they for once made an easy way to relinquish it.

This seems to apply to Chinese-Americans specifically. Here are a couple of other sources:

https://fortune.com/2022/10/13/chinese-americans-china-chip-...

https://news.yahoo.com/bidens-export-curbs-place-many-233739...

Re: Biden cripples China's semiconductor industry overnight

#12

Post by slothsinc »

slothsinc wrote: post #11
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a source on the loss of citizenship? Historically the US made it very hard to give up citizenship, I would be surprised if they for once made an easy way to relinquish it.

This seems to apply to Chinese-Americans specifically. Here are a couple of other sources: https://fortune.com/2022/10/13/chinese-americans-china-chip-... https://news.yahoo.com/bidens-export-curbs-place-many-233739...

Actually, the Yahoo story says: "The order applies to all U.S. citizens, green-card holders and foreign nationals who live in the U.S."

Re: Biden cripples China's semiconductor industry overnight

#13

Post by slothsinc »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #5

That's a really slanted article, from the first sentence. I would take everything it says with a grain of salt. That said... I question whether this is actually within the president's authority. What did he actually order? (No, I don't care what this article says. What was the actual order?) Does he, constitutionally, have the authority to do that?

The Washington Post also reports this:

"In a novel step that appears to have prompted some companies to broadly suspend trade with China, the rules also bar “U.S. persons” — including American factories, and Americans and U.S. green-card holders who work in foreign factories overseas — from supporting the development or production of advanced chips in China, unless they receive a U.S. government license." Source: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/10/17/export-...

"“There are green-card holders considered U.S. persons that are going to be in a bind. Do they want to stay in China and give up their U.S. person status or do they want to move?""

Re: Biden cripples China's semiconductor industry overnight

#14

Post by slothsinc »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #4
slothsinc wrote: post #2

Any thoughts on why this news overall isn't getting more attention? And what about the threat of taking away citizenships, is that even legal?

There is no threat of taking away citizenship. Citizens will be banned from certain jobs with severe penalties for breaches. Therefore execs with dualcitizenship might choose to give up US citizenship and keep their jobs instead. But no-one will take their US citizenship away. The article is highly misleading and misrepresents the situation.

Do you have a source for this?

Re: Biden cripples China's semiconductor industry overnight

#15

Post by fspeech »

salawat wrote: post #9
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #5

That's a really slanted article, from the first sentence. I would take everything it says with a grain of salt. That said... I question whether this is actually within the president's authority. What did he actually order? (No, I don't care what this article says. What was the actual order?) Does he, constitutionally, have the authority to do that?

Yes. The President, as the Chief Executive, has the authority to manage anything w.r.t. foreign policy. This includes the imposition and management of tariffs (something not a lot of people realize Congress ceded to the executive), as well as imposing sanctions, or getting any of the basket of regulatory agencies operating under him to enact something tut sweet. As far as I am aware, he added Semiconductor fab equipm…

ASML has explicitly said that the new rules don't affect them much because they don't have many US parts in non-EUV machines: https://www.reuters.com/technology/asml-reports-better-than-...

Re: Biden cripples China's semiconductor industry overnight

#16

Post by slothsinc »

slothsinc wrote: post #12
slothsinc wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to apply to Chinese-Americans specifically. Here are a couple of other sources: https://fortune.com/2022/10/13/chinese-americans-china-chip-... https://news.yahoo.com/bidens-export-curbs-place-many-233739...

Actually, the Yahoo story says: "The order applies to all U.S. citizens, green-card holders and foreign nationals who live in the U.S."

The Fortune headline seems misleading, but the article is behind a paywall so I couldn't read, so I'm not 100% sure.

Re: Biden cripples China's semiconductor industry overnight

#17

Post by mytailorisrich »

slothsinc wrote: post #14
mytailorisrich wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no threat of taking away citizenship. Citizens will be banned from certain jobs with severe penalties for breaches. Therefore execs with dualcitizenship might choose to give up US citizenship and keep their jobs instead. But no-one will take their US citizenship away. The article is highly misleading and misrepresents the situation.

Do you have a source for this?

The text of the actual new rules and articles that covered it in reputable publications.

For instance [1]:

"For many senior executives at Chinese companies, the rule will likely force them to decide between their jobs and their U.S. citizenship or permanent resident status,"

This is the correct, accurate take on the issue, which is being distorted in the article you posted.

No-one will be stripped from their US citizenship.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/articles/american-executives-in-limbo-at...

Re: Biden cripples China's semiconductor industry overnight

#18

Post by mytailorisrich »

slothsinc wrote: post #11
the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a source on the loss of citizenship? Historically the US made it very hard to give up citizenship, I would be surprised if they for once made an easy way to relinquish it.

This seems to apply to Chinese-Americans specifically. Here are a couple of other sources: https://fortune.com/2022/10/13/chinese-americans-china-chip-... https://news.yahoo.com/bidens-export-curbs-place-many-233739...

No, the Fortune article correctly reports that people may be forced to choose. But there is no provision to strip people of citizenship in the new rules as the article you submitted implies.
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