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Apple unveils redesigned iPad

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Re: Apple unveils redesigned iPad

#321
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> most people reading Apple's comparison will think that it is 5 times faster than fastest Android tablet and this is exactly what they're aiming for That is such a wild conclusion. Apple clearly says "best-selling" right in the claim. They didn't hide it in a footnote. I believe that "best-selling" is not a difficult concept to understand for most people, and I struggle to think of a better way for Apple to have wor…

> If BMW compared one of their new vehicles to the best-selling car in America, who is going think BMW is intending for the reader to compare against a Bugatti Chiron? That is not what anyone would conclude, and it's the same here. You just said it right here. If BMW is Apple, and the Best Selling Car is the Tata or a Chinese Brand ( because that is where they made the volume ), which reader would have made that conc…

You’re setting up a strawman which is easy for you to knock over. I specifically said “best-selling car in America”, which would not be from a Chinese brand. It appears to be the Toyota Camry, but whatever it is, it is certainly going to be similar to other well-selling, similarly-priced vehicles the average US reader would be familiar with, whether that is a Honda Civic or Subaru Impreza or whatever.

Without seeing Apple’s market research data, which you also haven’t seen, they likely concluded that the best selling Android tablet in America is a cheap tablet sold at Walmart or Amazon. Do you really think the new iPad isn’t up to 5x faster than the best-selling Fire tablet on Amazon? As someone else pointed out, the Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 Lite uses the exact chip mentioned in the comparison, and it has 10k reviews on the Amazon storefront. This is not some no-name tablet only sold in China.

If Apple were comparing against tablets only sold in China in a US press release, and if those tablets were significantly weaker than the best selling Android tablet in America, then yes, it would be misleading, but I have seen no evidence to indicate that, and I don’t believe that’s what happened here.

The upvotes I’ve gotten are enough to indicate this isn’t likely to be a bad look for Apple. Plus, even if you consider it misleading, this is only in a press release, it isn’t even on the product page that people will actually see. But no evidence has been presented that Apple chose to be misleading. This comparison seems perfectly fine.

Re: Apple unveils redesigned iPad

#322
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If BMW compared one of their new vehicles to the best-selling car in America, who is going think BMW is intending for the reader to compare against a Bugatti Chiron? That is not what anyone would conclude, and it's the same here. You just said it right here. If BMW is Apple, and the Best Selling Car is the Tata or a Chinese Brand ( because that is where they made the volume ), which reader would have made that conc…

You’re setting up a strawman which is easy for you to knock over. I specifically said “best-selling car in America”, which would not be from a Chinese brand. It appears to be the Toyota Camry, but whatever it is, it is certainly going to be similar to other well-selling, similarly-priced vehicles the average US reader would be familiar with, whether that is a Honda Civic or Subaru Impreza or whatever. Without seeing…

It is not a US Press Release. But a "World Wide" press release. Hence "best-selling car in America" is the wrong analogy.

And they never stated it was "best selling Android tablet in America ".

Re: Apple unveils redesigned iPad

#323
post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re setting up a strawman which is easy for you to knock over. I specifically said “best-selling car in America”, which would not be from a Chinese brand. It appears to be the Toyota Camry, but whatever it is, it is certainly going to be similar to other well-selling, similarly-priced vehicles the average US reader would be familiar with, whether that is a Honda Civic or Subaru Impreza or whatever. Without seeing…

It is not a US Press Release. But a "World Wide" press release. Hence "best-selling car in America" is the wrong analogy. And they never stated it was "best selling Android tablet in America ".

You’re completely ignoring points which don’t agree with you.

The Galaxy Tab A7 Lite uses the exact chip in the comparison and is an extremely well-selling tablet in America, and likely worldwide. The new iPad is definitely 5x faster in some benchmarks I checked compared to one of the Amazon fire tablets I saw on sale, which is also extremely popular. That’s two of the most popular tablets I’m aware of, and other tablets in these price ranges don’t appear any more powerful.

This indicates that their comparison is not misleading, full stop. We don’t really need more data to prove their comparison seems adequate. Apple didn’t set up a strawman.

You’re not providing any evidence to your claim that it is misleading. Just because you don’t like a comparison doesn’t make it misleading.

The press release also states Cupertino, California, but I don’t see where it says it is worldwide as you claim. It is reasonable to assume that a press release by a U.S. company being released from a U.S. office is intended for a U.S. audience. I don’t see any mention of euros or other non-U.S. currencies in the press release, but they do mention dollars and they specifically refer to the U.S. several times. If it is targeting the U.S., then the comparison should be against the U.S., and it appears to be perfectly relevant against some of the best selling Android tablets here. There is no need to stretch for some brand only sold in China, as you did in your analogy. (I don’t have the market research they have in order to determine which one is the best selling, but the A7 Lite seems like a solid bet as the one Apple concluded.)

What evidence do you have that the best-selling Android tablet in America is significantly faster than the Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 Lite? That’s the only question that is relevant to this discussion. Apple’s claims appear to be spot-on for the U.S. market based on my own quick research. Baseless claims of a company intentionally being misleading are pointless to debate, so I’m done here. I’m happy to criticize Apple for all sorts of things, including their tendency to hamstring PWAs to promote their App Store monopoly, but this tablet performance comparison appears perfectly fine.

Re: Apple unveils redesigned iPad

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar price. Fair comparison.

Here's an Android Tablet with that chip for £99 ($88 at current exchange rate). https://www.laptopsdirect.co.uk/tcl-tab-10s-32gb-10.2-inch-w...

Minor correction: 99 GBP = 111 USD, think you used the exchange rate the wrong way round.

The pound has fallen a lot of late, but it's not quite at parity with the dollar

Re: Apple unveils redesigned iPad

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professionals and audiophiles (not the audience of the base iPad) use an external DAC, etc. Regular people these days use Bluetooth audio. That leaves people who just want wired headphones. Plenty of cheap USB-C to 3.5mm adapters out there.

K-12 schools will have to replace their existing headphones with USB-C models, but that's not too bad, the headphones take a lot of abuse in that environment. EOLing the lightning charging infrastructure they have is going to be more impactful.

Note that Apple still sells the Lightning iPad with 3.5mm jack, so this is only a concern post 2024 (the EU mandate comes into force at the end of 2024).

> K-12 schools will have to replace their existing headphones with USB-C models

No, they just need adapters. These are fairly cheap, especially when purchased in bulk (which is what a school would do).

I agree re charging, and personally I wish things stayed on Lightning for a while longer. But USB-C charging cables are also fairly cheap, thankfully.

There is always a transition cost. I don't personally believe there is much benefit going from Lightning to USB-C except for transferring large files (videos), but it arguably means we need to carry fewer cables when traveling.

Re: Apple unveils redesigned iPad

#326

I “like” how Apple makes a better keyboard/trackpad case for the cheap iPad than for the Pro. The new Magic Keyboard Folio: - has a trackpad - has media keys - can lie flat on a table without having to remove the case The Magic Keyboard (the floaty one): - has a trackpad - does not have media keys - cannot lie flat The Smart Keyboard Folio: - does not have a trackpad - does not have media keys - can lie flat So if yo…

What do you mean "lie flat on a table"? You want to use the iPad with the screen flat on the table in line with the keyboard? Do you realize how bad that is for you, ergonomically? Your neck will have a really hard time over time.

No, I want to be able to switch between using it like a laptop and using it like a tablet (and writing on it with the pencil).

Re: Apple unveils redesigned iPad

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My 2010 (and below) x86 tablets all run fine. Linux has mitigated most of the security issues. They all run completely current browsers. Personally I think all of these examples should either legally have to be supported, or companies should be obligated to give away all source code & systems required for the user community/world to continue ongoing support & fixes.

I’m sure it run very fast, is light and has great battery life compared to a $300 low end iPad. At some point using old hardware becomes silly and becomes a point of nerd pride.

The 2013 Dell Venue 11 Pro is remarkably good a contender. It's been $300 for half a decade, has 8-9 hours battery life with the keyboard, isn't super light nor thin but is pretty good & very compact, has a decent front shooter & so so back shooter. Has a 4G option.

I have moved on to a great 2-in-1 from 2017 that is quite similar, newer specs, much lighter at 7.4mm and 1.6lbs, OLED screen... this isn't geek pride. This is a fantastic brilliant light machine that until very recently would knock the socks off any iPad or Android Tablet, and has been available New Old Stock for under $400 for years now. It's far more machine than the flagship tablets until very recently.

The low end iPad is definitely an enviable marvel but it's also far less of an advance than I think we really understand. Part of why it looks so good though is because so many machines are poorly built, are compromised heavily. The whole 2-in-1 thing has gotten segmented into expensive fancy Surface competitors & ultra-low-end machines (which honestly with slightly better builds and much much better screens would be stunning devices), with unreasonable uncompromising top or bottom of market positioning. It's been sad. But some places out there are some really great 2-in-1 pc competitors, that have long put to shame Android & iPad offerings (until Apples very recent speedy but oh-so-limited oh-so-walled-garden oh-so-controlled shorter-lifed iPads).

There's absolutely a lot of people who just swear by Lenovo T420's forever & seemingly always will. I'm not at all of that ilk.

Re: Apple unveils redesigned iPad

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure it run very fast, is light and has great battery life compared to a $300 low end iPad. At some point using old hardware becomes silly and becomes a point of nerd pride.

The 2013 Dell Venue 11 Pro is remarkably good a contender. It's been $300 for half a decade, has 8-9 hours battery life with the keyboard, isn't super light nor thin but is pretty good & very compact, has a decent front shooter & so so back shooter. Has a 4G option. I have moved on to a great 2-in-1 from 2017 that is quite similar, newer specs, much lighter at 7.4mm and 1.6lbs, OLED screen... this isn't geek pride. T…

> The 2013 Dell Venue 11 Pro is remarkably good a contender. It's been $300 for half a decade, has 8-9 hours battery life with the keyboard, isn't super light nor thin but is pretty good & very compact, has a decent front shooter & so so back shooter. Has a 4G option.

The Dell is slower than 2012 era iPhone 5

https://www.anandtech.com/bench/PhoneTablet14/937

> The whole 2-in-1 thing has gotten segmented into expensive fancy Surface competitors & ultra-low-end machines (which honestly with slightly better builds and much much better screens would be stunning devices)

“Other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?”

> until Apples very recent speedy but oh-so-limited oh-so-walled-garden oh-so-controlled shorter-lifed iPads).

As of right now, the iPad Air 2 from 2014 supports the latest OS. Apple just released a security patch for the iPhone 5s from 2013 in June.

Re: Apple unveils redesigned iPad

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 2013 Dell Venue 11 Pro is remarkably good a contender. It's been $300 for half a decade, has 8-9 hours battery life with the keyboard, isn't super light nor thin but is pretty good & very compact, has a decent front shooter & so so back shooter. Has a 4G option. I have moved on to a great 2-in-1 from 2017 that is quite similar, newer specs, much lighter at 7.4mm and 1.6lbs, OLED screen... this isn't geek pride. T…

> The 2013 Dell Venue 11 Pro is remarkably good a contender. It's been $300 for half a decade, has 8-9 hours battery life with the keyboard, isn't super light nor thin but is pretty good & very compact, has a decent front shooter & so so back shooter. Has a 4G option. The Dell is slower than 2012 era iPhone 5 https://www.anandtech.com/bench/PhoneTablet14/937 > The whole 2-in-1 thing has gotten segmented into expensiv…

> The Dell is slower than 2012 era iPhone 5

The Venue 11 Pro is not on any of these benchmarks. You are comparing the lowest power Atom to mobile cores, not the Venue 11 Pro's Haswell. Try again.

Generally I'd like it if you'd tone down the snark. I'm trying to have some conversation/discourse here, & it feels indecorous to take my 2-in-1 market segmentation woes into such ungraceful territory.

> As of right now, the iPad Air 2 from 2014 supports the latest OS.

In the United States and Turkey and nowhere else. Regarded as a Vintage model. iPad 5 from March 2017 is the last "current" model with international support. Still not bad, beats Android by far. But my (previous 2013 era) device is significantly faster[1], about twice as old, and continues to run regular, well supported OSes with good security status.

[1] https://browser.geekbench.com/v5/cpu/compare/16785932?baseli...

Re: Apple unveils redesigned iPad

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Timing. Midi jitter and latency. DOS/Windows 3.1 is still good for timing sensitive applications. Nowadays MIDI interfaces are usually USB. But an ISA card or a parallel port will yield better results. On modern computers, MIDI generally feels slightly off, and not as musical, but for the most part 'good enough' for the vast majority.

And you’re running an outdated unsupported operating system. You could buy an old Mac that wasn’t supported to run a PPC version of Photoshop. But the oldest iPad from 2010 will still be able to get the “last supported version” of apps from the App Store, still works with old versions of iWork, streaming video apps, Spotify (at least it did a couple of years ago), you can send video from it to any device that support…

I don't understand the point you are making, but my point is that MIDI on old hardware works BETTER than on modern hardware. Whether or not the operating system is unsupported is irrelevant. The old hardware is not "outdated" in the sense that it WORKS BETTER.

But to respond to your second point, I believe that Apple has REMOVED apps from the App Store that were previously available to download. For example, I was not able to download on my old iPhone 4 the latest working GarageBand for that device, because it was deleted. This is not the only app that I have not been able to download, because it was REMOVED FROM THE APP STORE.

But I think the point you are missing is that if Apple decides that these devices are obsolete and they will not support them, they should be willing to at least release documentation that allows people to write/install whatever software they want on those devices.

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