Right now though, I’m not in a position to take time away and I’m in a little rut. But the cure will again be some small wins and exercise to move me forward again.
Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?
221–230 of 370 posts
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?
#222Burnout always happens, in every job. Solution? Well, first, not everyone has the privilege to do something about it, but you're in tech so: Vacations. Sabbaticals. Gap year. Change jobs. I've had 35+ years in tech and done all of the above. I routinely "burn out" (aka, get bored) after about 5 to 7 years and move to a new group or company. Still love coding, still love leading projects. Just need to change it up.
Getting bored is not a burnout.
I'll be playing cat and mouse with it for the rest of my life probably. So yes I think you sort of can aka getting bored with burnout...
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?
#22336 messages and nobody pointed out that a main source of burnout is when your *values* are not aligned with your work. It's unsurprising people burn out when their job is about optimizing ads to enrich some billionaire and stuff like that. Find jobs that are meaningful to you and you can improve.
There are no meaningful (at least to me) jobs around here that can feed my family.
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?
#224Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?
#225This advice is going to be hated by a lot of people but.. care less. You’re in an industry that values your skills and seems to always have demand. Whether or not that’s true in the future, it certainly is today , so the best thing you can do is put yourself first and worry less about work as a whole. Especially if it’s not your own company. Spend more time on you, on activities with friends and family, on hobbies. I…
I have been through the same. Caring less, working 40 hours and nevertheless, productivity went up. Work is a tool to enable your private life. Not the other way around.
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?
#226Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?
#227The idea that anyone should sustain focus and interest on any given thing for years on end, whether you're "neurotypcial", or ADHD, or ASD, is pretty ridiculous. We are more or less designed to be able to specialize but also grow into other things. The problem I see with tech is that we like to pretend that there's a variety of roles to grow into, but they're all more or less the same, and we're not all destined for management. Coding jobs fundamentally suck once you get beyond junior level because it's not the juniors companies need to fix bugs but seniors. Yet no one became a software developer because they wanted to fix bugs for a living. Sure sure, we all work on features at one point or another, but even those features are fraught with the caveat of navigating all the mounts of fixes to keep an insanely complicated system running. It makes about as much sense are having a committee write the next great American novel all while having two-week sprints and Jira tickets for plot holes.
At the same time, as an industry, we've made things very hard for ourselves. I'm of the opinion that all the tooling we've invented and all the "gee whiz" we've added to our apps kills the efficiency and enjoyment of working on them in the long term. The more tools we add, the more disagreement over those tools we can have, hence everyone is constantly in a flux of learning and considering tools that were written just yesterday "obsolete" or "antipatterned." Way too much time is spent on stupid shit like making web apps appear native, SSR, test coverage, preprocessors, transpilers, package managers, runtimes, whether a thing should be rewritten in Rust, whether a codebase should go back to vanilla JS, and so much more. To be fair, this probably isn't as true for iOS developers, but I'm sure they have their own self-imposed challenges.
So how do I manage it? I stopped caring so much. Jobs are supposed to have a level of suck, else they'd be hobbies rather than jobs. If you can tolerate the level of suck at a job, and the pay is worth that suck, then don't beat yourself up when you can't perform any better than you already are. Yes, you'll probably have to face that fact in performance reviews. But performance reviews are usually bullshit. Why? Because there's "always room for improvement." I've never experienced anything meaningful from a performance review. Whether the manager knows it themselves or not, performance reviews mainly exist to keep employees gaslit into thinking they've got to try harder. So I mostly ignore them. And if a company wants to let me go because I'm not productive enough, well, fine then. I'm actually trying my hardest. My hardest may not be good enough for them, so I'll take it elsewhere. I just don't have the drive to perform highly anymore because the "burnout" is here to stay. I can't restart my brain back to the state it was in when I got my first coding job. It is what it is.
Transitioning into another career is always an option, though it may be the most difficult option.
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?
#228I remember reading a post on HN where a person said they took them close to decade to be close to feel mostly fully functional after a major burnout. I'm sure some people recover faster, but I would agree that it can take even longer.
I had a massive burnout about 8 years ago and only now feel like parts of "me" are coming back. My recovery took longer because I had to keep working and I was at the age where I think a lot of people naturally become jaded with corporate structures. So it was a work induced burnout that later overlapped with a natural philosophical crises.
First of all, I don't think I'll ever "love" what I do again. At every job I've had after my first few entry level ones, my job responsibilities are ever increasing and a lot of those responsibilities are organizational things I have to do, not stuff I actually enjoy doing. What's there love in that?
>If so, how did you manage to do it?
1. Time, Time and more Time. Be patient with yourself. Forgive your own failings and the forgive yourself for not recovering at the speed you feel you should.
2. If you have to keep working, find the right job with the right management with goals you agree with. This can take a few job changes. Changing jobs is tough and that in itself can add to the burnout. I did a few job changes and eventually took a step back career and salary wise, but that was the best decision I made for my long term sanity.
3. Highwaylights already said this, but learn when to care and when to not care. Too much caring = burning out
4. When you are ready, try to find the joy in your personal hobbies without any timeline pressures. There's this Richard Feynman letter or article where he talks about how he felt burned out on Physics and found the joy again by doing physics for fun in his free time, not for work or for publishing another paper. Work on stuff without pressure. Take a year to go through a technical (or non-technical) book/course that would take a month under other circumstances. Finding a tiny bit of joy somewhere is the first step to finding more of it.
5. Realize that you may never fully recover and maybe that is a good thing. Feeling like something permanently broke in you helps with caring less.
6. I feel like I've got some sort form of PTSD against a certain type of manager/management. Certain personalities and keywords really upset me. Finding ways to manage that has helped me a lot as I learned I need to be more confident with setting boundaries.
7. Did I say Time already?
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?
#2291. Therapy - it turns out a lot of my burnout was due the ways that I had grown to handle hard situations breaking down. I needed to process how I dealt with success and failure and hard situations. Ultimately it’s similar to the “care less” advice but I couldn’t have gotten there without therapy.
2. Time off - this was a tremendous luxury, but I took about 6 months off. For the first month I did nothing but help my kids do remote Covid school. After that I started trying to work through where I was at. I started meditating, reading books on self-compassion, burnout, and career changes. I started exploring potential career changes. After a while, I started getting the itch to program and worked on some personal projects. This was really useful for processing that I still enjoyed programming.
3. Figure out why the previous job didn’t work. I spent a fair bit of time thinking about why the previous job was hard for me. Turned out it was the slow pace of decision making and diffuse accountability that made driving projects really stressful for me.
4. Find a job that checks the boxes… once I realized I still enjoyed writing code and had figured out what I didn’t want, I was able to optimize my job search and ask the questions I needed to during the process to find something we’ll-suited for me. It’s possible to be wrong here, either about the causes or about what the new job will offer, so I gave myself some slack here; nothing is perfect. 5. Medication - even after I started my new job, I still dealt with some burnout-y feelings, after conversation with my therapist, I got a prescription for a relatively low dose. This wasn’t magic, but it has helped me reset my baseline feelings and approach things with more ambivalence.
Re: Ask HN: Has anyone managed to find enjoyment in their work after burnout?
#230"What I learned is that burning out isn’t just about work load, it’s about work load being greater than the motivation to do work." https://thetech.com/2010/04/09/dubai-v130-n18 I recommend reading the whole section on burnout. Although burnout isn't really the topic of the article this is the most enlightening writing I have ever read on it. Hoping it might serve you.
I enjoyed the article a lot. Not only the burnout part but also to enlighten me why free marketeers true believers incorporate as their moral ground on it. This quote brought to me how naive that view can be: > I’m a free marketeer. I believe that voluntary exchange is not just a good method of incentivizing people to provide their labor and talents to society, but a robust moral system — goods and services represent…