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Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

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Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#221

Post by UI_at_80x24 »

It sounds like you preferred the social aspect of being in the office. Not everybody does. The movie Office Space really hit on some key points: A mind-numbing commute, that wastes hours of "your time" that you don't get paid for. "Corporate Accounts Payable Nina speaking" Egomaniac of a boss/manager hovering over your shoulder telling you that you are typing wrong, and YOU need to work overtime while he buys a new sports-car. etc...

There is nothing that will pull me out of 'the zone' quicker then hearing distractions in the office. People talking, laughing, standing in front of your desk talking about shit that has nothing to do with you.

I would often go work IN THE SERVER ROOM, just to get away from the noise and distractions that existed in the office. [Open Office layouts need to be destroyed]

So WFH means I get 2 more hours a day of ME time. I sleep in later. I have more freedom of WHEN I work. If I get a flash of inspiration to solve a problem at 1am, I can jump in and fix it.

Being able to lean back and ask my co-worker: "Hey Bob, what was thing called in NGinx that we used last week?" is much less formal then trying to articulate in a slack/teams message.

BUT, I hated being interrupted by others asking things like "..what was thing called in NGinx that we used last week?" when I could have just been asked in Teams/Slack.

So to simplify these points; If you are pro-social: WFO is better If you are anti-social: WFH is better

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#222

Post by DrBazza »

> I know that "the office" is a bad place for a lot of people.

There's certainly a number of us where 'work from office' (WFO) really means share a vast open plan area with people and all their annoying habits.

That's why I don't want to go back. And that's why others don't want to go back. I believe the whole "I'm an introvert" thing to be mostly false for a lot of people for the reason above.

I don't mind socialising at lunch time, or in the office kitchen. But I'm paid to work, and work is code, and code is thinking. Thinking is done silently and without distraction.

But if employers want me in the office. Give me an actual office.

Where I can close the door and don't have to listen to someone eating at their desk, or some other annoying personal tic.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#223

Post by tsimionescu »

bodge5000 wrote: post #155
peyton wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can literally flip the O and H and change the “what makes me happy” part to get the opposite side’s point of view.

But as I said, its about choice. The WFH crowd are unhappy if they don't get a choice in where they work. The WFO crowd are unhappy if others DO get a choice of where they work. Or to put it another way, one side are unhappy if they're forced to do something they don't want to, the other is unhappy if the first are not forced to do something they don't want to do.

That's not the be-all, end-all. A previously WFO-only team must make various adjustments to become a successful hybrid team, so even just one WFH team-member will be unhappy if the entire rest of the team doesn't change their behavior in pertain ways (e.g. renouncing ad-hoc team meetings over coffee, or in-person whiteboarding).

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#225

Post by andsoitis »

jcpst wrote: post #207
andsoitis wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For twice a month you could probably Uber / rent a car and expense it, no?

Every time I’ve traveled for work, they do not expense the portion where you leave from your home. It’s up to you to get to work. So if you drive, you “leave from the office” (i.e. calc the distance from there), or drive to the airport, and getting from home to the airport is on you. Curious to hear if this is different for others.

If your principal “work location” is home, then the travel is a business expense and your employer should pay.

Many articles on this when you Google, but here’s one from a CPA https://www.bpbcpa.com/the-rules-employers-must-know-for-rei...

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#226

Post by jcpst »

unethical_ban wrote: post #181
bodge5000 wrote: post #118

With all due respect, this is mostly my problem with the "work-from-office" (WFO for ease) crowd. Generally, the stance of the WFH crowd is that each individual should get a choice of what makes that individual happy. Very few, if any, of the WFH crowd want mandatated WFH, it would make no sense. But then the WFO crowd often says no, I don't care what makes you happy, because you being in makes me happy. That doesn't…

Work is a third of our life, and it seems reasonable that many people would want social interaction during that time. Further, at least in the workplace I had before Covid, people could work from home as needed, or even part time, depending on their management. Granted this was for IT, not for the whole company though. You think WFH is every individuals choice in this new world. It isn’t. The last place I worked had…

I love love love wfh. Makes a world of difference when you have a family. I walk my kids to school. I can take care of tasks that require small amounts of active work- load dishwasher, etc.

But I wouldn’t be where I am today without wfo early in my career.

It would be nice to come up with some new ways of handling this. Maybe the more senior folks who want to be in the office lead a team of juniors, who can then choose to wfh over time, as they decide how much benefit it gives them.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#227

Post by bodge5000 »

unethical_ban wrote: post #181
bodge5000 wrote: post #118

With all due respect, this is mostly my problem with the "work-from-office" (WFO for ease) crowd. Generally, the stance of the WFH crowd is that each individual should get a choice of what makes that individual happy. Very few, if any, of the WFH crowd want mandatated WFH, it would make no sense. But then the WFO crowd often says no, I don't care what makes you happy, because you being in makes me happy. That doesn't…

Work is a third of our life, and it seems reasonable that many people would want social interaction during that time. Further, at least in the workplace I had before Covid, people could work from home as needed, or even part time, depending on their management. Granted this was for IT, not for the whole company though. You think WFH is every individuals choice in this new world. It isn’t. The last place I worked had…

> Work is a third of our life, and it seems reasonable that many people would want social interaction during that time

Yeh thats reasonable enough. I do miss the social aspects of working in an office, I just don't miss the logistics of it like the commute, or the cost, the social pressures or the lack of freedom. As you say work is a third of our life, it seems reasonable that people wouldn't want it to be any more consuming.

> You think WFH is every individuals choice in this new world. It isn’t.

You say this and then don't really expand on it further. Do you mean its not a choice for those not in IT? Of course we all know this, thats the point, if you can do your job from home it should be a choice thats open to you. Its not for everyone, thats the problem.

> WFH is a group decision. Don’t think it’s morally superior to choose WFH.

1. No its not. Its an individual decision. It affects a wider group, as does any individual decision, as is the decision to force working in an office.

2. Nobody said its morally superior, other than that it seems to me morally superior not to force decisions on people because it makes you personally happy.

As for the arguments on community, that community mainly seems to be involved with shops and land mass. I'm not sure I'd call that a community, at least one thats not corporate controlled or impossible to replicate remotely.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#229

Post by tsimionescu »

DrBazza wrote: post #222

> I know that "the office" is a bad place for a lot of people. There's certainly a number of us where 'work from office' (WFO) really means share a vast open plan area with people and all their annoying habits. That's why I don't want to go back. And that's why others don't want to go back. I believe the whole "I'm an introvert" thing to be mostly false for a lot of people for the reason above. I don't mind socialisi…

A lot of other people have the opposite problem: even an open-plan office is significantly quieter and easier to think in than in your own apartment with your kids around.

Re: Ask HN: Why don't I see gold at the end of the remote working rainbow?

#230

Post by Karawebnetwork »

> commute doesn't make up for the gains of socializing

You've put your finger on the problem. It's about how people socialize.

From your text, it's clear that you've done a lot of your socializing in your job.

Many people don't. In fact, many put on a fake smile and just get on with the day.

The extra hours a day allow me to socialize with people I really like in my actual life. I've rebuild friendships that were on life support and rekindled with my partner.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the occasional team building exercise. I also value workplace relationships and do my best to make sure people are okay with their mental health. But I'm not out to make friends. In fact, I've always been annoyed by people who used work and the office as a way to hold their colleagues hostage in office "friendships." I'm not saying you do that.

Now everyone is free to do what they want. In our case, the office is open and the 5-10 people who were leading the office social life still go there. It's how they enjoy their workday and it's absolutely valid to do so.

All the other people who were just friendly for the sake of professionalism no longer go in and interact with others except for professional reasons.

If we lived in a world where we had complete control of our workspace (as long as we were physically present in the office) I would work in a private office with a door that locks. I would walk in every morning, work without talking to anyone, and leave in the afternoon. It would be identical to WFH except with an added commute.

For me, it's a dream.

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