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I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#171

Post by quickthrower2 »

ryanjshaw wrote: post #12

SMS integration is a lost opportunity in so many ways. I wanted a no-code solution to push my bank-sent SMSs into a real-time transaction database. Apparently this is impossible on iOS, and on Android it's incredibly unreliable (IFTTT & Tasker keep getting shut down by the OS). Fortunately, before writing my own solution, I found messages.google.com/web. I have to scrape this, but that's simpler than maintaining an A…

Why not scrape your bank directly? For semi-auto I used to use TamperMonkey to help turn a statement into a CSV if the bank didn’t have a download.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#172

Post by phh »

bewilderbeast wrote: post #47

I have 2 issues with RCS: 1. Requires data connection, either WiFi or mobile data. SMS does not. 2. On Android, it goes through Google Messages. I don't trust Google. So, I replaced Messages with another SMS app that doesn't spy on me and disabled RCS. If I wanted to do rich messaging through data connection, I would use Signal or similar. So, RCS is not a replacement for SMS. It's just another IM protocol. And we ha…

1. True RCS isn't supposed to go through internet, it's supposed to go through same way as SMS and voice calls (which is also a data connection, but specific to sms/rcs/voice)

2. That's not a requirement even though Google does their best to kill all alternative implementations. (Samsung had one, but Google paid them a lot of money to get rid of it. I have to admit I don't know who is left with their own RCS client)

> So, RCS is not a replacement for SMS.

It's 100% a replacement to SMS, it's literally defined in the same spec as SMS over LTE, as an upgrade to SMS. Though yeah Google made it, this... uh... thing. RCS is technically a federated standard, but Google killed every part of the federation and some parts of the standard.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#173

Post by jeroenhd »

Aissen wrote: post #90

This was posted in the Signal discourse on the same day of the announcement (and linked deep in 630+ comments of the HN post), and I'm glad it's reposted here because it paints a very different picture than the previous blog post. The hidden gem is that basically Google is taking over control of RCS, and by proxy "text messages". There will only be one Android implementation, and it's Android Messages. It (finally) c…

I haven't looked into the RCS protocol myself but what is preventing others from building their own RCS clients? As I understand the protocol, it's IP based rather than modem based, so external apps should work, right?

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#174

Post by quickthrower2 »

grey_earthling wrote: post #84
girvo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Turning RCS into their own private messaging platform on Android has to be peak Google. While at the same time pushing this "Apple is bad because green bubble" narrative because Apple doesn't support it. It's somewhat amusing in some ways. Companies (Google or Apple) are never on the consumers side, and yet we fall for it all the time.

> Companies (Google or Apple) are never on the consumers side, and yet we fall for it all the time. It genuinely surprises me how often the HN crowd falls for it. I would have expected them to be more aware than the average consumer of how tech companies use lock-in to trap their users. Perhaps there's a blind spot because lots of HN folks work on projects or for companies that (hope to) use the same tactic?

Convenience is a tough mistress!

Apple phones are simply good to use and work well. Me getting a generic phone and installing Arch Linux in it or something will have little effect on its own. But it will make my life very inconvenient!

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#175

Post by up6w6 »

DocTomoe wrote: post #51
robobro wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix

It is my understanding that this mostly works with rooms/channels over bridges - not with individual, 1-on-1 communication. Do you have a hint how to set this up?

Most bridges work by running a program that will emulate a client. For example, with Telegram/Whatsapp/Signal you will authenticate the bridge bot using a qr-code just like if you were authenticating on a computer.

Also see [1], they have every bridge's features well documented.

[1] https://matrix.org/bridges/

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#176

Post by izacus »

phh wrote: post #172
bewilderbeast wrote: post #47

I have 2 issues with RCS: 1. Requires data connection, either WiFi or mobile data. SMS does not. 2. On Android, it goes through Google Messages. I don't trust Google. So, I replaced Messages with another SMS app that doesn't spy on me and disabled RCS. If I wanted to do rich messaging through data connection, I would use Signal or similar. So, RCS is not a replacement for SMS. It's just another IM protocol. And we ha…

1. True RCS isn't supposed to go through internet, it's supposed to go through same way as SMS and voice calls (which is also a data connection, but specific to sms/rcs/voice) 2. That's not a requirement even though Google does their best to kill all alternative implementations. (Samsung had one, but Google paid them a lot of money to get rid of it. I have to admit I don't know who is left with their own RCS client)…

RCS might be a federated standard, but before Google not even Verizon at AT&T wanted to federate.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#177

Post by nextstep »

modo_mario wrote: post #22
apexalpha wrote: post #20

I think you're forgetting the main reason: the group of people using it to communicate is really small and shrinking every year. The only large group of people who still primarily use SMS to communicate person-to-person is Android users in the USA. Every other country has settled on either Telegram, WeChat, WhatsApp or FB Messenger, or other niche apps. These apps work on both iOS and Android and often also Windows.…

SMS is still rather common here in Europe. Even if a ton of people use whatsapp and such SMS is often a safe option to initiate with or something trough which you get certain kinds of automated messages like appointment reminders or verification codes.

What country do live in? I haven’t received an SMS from a human in probably ten years; I live in Europe and everyone uses Signal/WhatsApp

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#178

Post by neogodless »

FYI this was linked[0] and discussed on the previous discussion[1] of Signal's decision, and is available to view on their community forums[2].

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33181636

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33179047

[2] https://community.signalusers.org/t/signal-blog-removing-sms...

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#179

Post by TrueDuality »

jeroenhd wrote: post #173
Aissen wrote: post #90

This was posted in the Signal discourse on the same day of the announcement (and linked deep in 630+ comments of the HN post), and I'm glad it's reposted here because it paints a very different picture than the previous blog post. The hidden gem is that basically Google is taking over control of RCS, and by proxy "text messages". There will only be one Android implementation, and it's Android Messages. It (finally) c…

I haven't looked into the RCS protocol myself but what is preventing others from building their own RCS clients? As I understand the protocol, it's IP based rather than modem based, so external apps should work, right?

As far as I understand it right now its a lack of exposed APIs in Android to access the message stores. I suspect this is something that will be standardized and exposed in a future API revision, but as it stands right now using the official APIs I don't think you're able to make your own...

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#180

Post by rippercushions »

jbverschoor wrote: post #30
joel35 wrote: post #21

With Signal moving away from SMS, the required messaging app stack on my phone just to be able to receive everything sent do me will have to be: - Signal -> Close friends & family I've convinced to use it. - WhatsApp -> Most of my friends. - SMS -> School notifications, 2FA, shipping updates, etc. - Facebook Messenger -> Elderly relatives - Telegram -> That one relative who wants to use this instead of Signal. Is the…

I never understood Telegram. It's insecure by default, runs in a different jurisdiction. It's not even anonymous But somehow people started using it because it was "more secure" than whatsapp.

Anonymous groups are one killer app: you can easily join interest groups without leaking your phone number or other obvious ID (Facebook identity etc).

Of course, it's not really "anonymous" if a nation-state wants to come after you, but that's not the threat model for most people.

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