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I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

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Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#91

Post by batiudrami »

NavinF wrote: post #53
edent wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I remember when - years ago - they unilaterally switched all Android devices to use the Apple emoji. No consultation, no investigation with users, no reason other than they wanted consistency across their apps. Took a lot of grumpy users before they backtracked. I use and like Signal. I'm not smart enough to disagree with some of their technical decisions, but I wish they could have found a way to make SMS/RC…

I can see why some people would want a toggle, but defaulting to Apple emoji seems like the obviously correct thing to do. I suspect a major reason why HNers hate emoji in general is because they see different images from what gen-z sees and therefore have a hard time understanding jokes that rely on how these images look.

This used to be a problem but has been largely solved for the last 3-5 years. Emoji while slightly different looking are tonally consistent across devices.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#92

Post by jonas-w »

secret-noun wrote: post #43

> RCS (Rich Communications Services) is coming Has there been any new press on this? The last nugget I heard was https://www.android.com/get-the-message/ , which didn't really announce any progress.

I think many people don't realize they have it or use it, but if I would send a Message via my default "SMS" App to another Android User they will very likely receive this as an RCS Message.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#93

Post by pkorzeniewski »

apexalpha wrote: post #20

I think you're forgetting the main reason: the group of people using it to communicate is really small and shrinking every year. The only large group of people who still primarily use SMS to communicate person-to-person is Android users in the USA. Every other country has settled on either Telegram, WeChat, WhatsApp or FB Messenger, or other niche apps. These apps work on both iOS and Android and often also Windows.…

I'm from Europe and use SMS only, I don't get it how having a dozen of messaging apps and remembering who uses what is better than a simple SMS that I can send to absolutely anyone with a phone..

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#94

Post by luckylion »

edent wrote: post #66
esskay wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure that can be said as a blanket statement for the whole of Europe. In the UK SMS isn't common at all anymore.

Not common isn't quite right. Ofcom's report shows that SMS use is shrinking, but it is still an average of 51 messages per user per month. Source https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/222401/... SMS decline is probably inevitable though.

Wow, 51 messages _sent_ per user per month, so it's not even about receiving verification SMS.

> The average mobile connection sent 51 messages per month in 2020, 17 fewer than in 2019.

I'd love to know the median, I assume there's a number of power users that drives up the average. Or bots that are sending out thousands of messages a day.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#95

Post by Tor3 »

microtonal wrote: post #28
modo_mario wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SMS is still rather common here in Europe. Even if a ton of people use whatsapp and such SMS is often a safe option to initiate with or something trough which you get certain kinds of automated messages like appointment reminders or verification codes.

I think that differs very much per country. The last time I have received an SMS from a human in NL must have been a decade ago. In many European countries, sending SMS was quite expensive, leading to early and very wide adoption of WhatsApp.

It's definitely in use in Europe, but it depends. I and my wife use SMS extensively, that's simply because we both use very cheap phone plans without a built-in data plan - i.e. no internet unless we have wi-fi (the pro side of that is that the yearly phone expenses is in the (equivalent of) low tens of dollars, not hundreds of dollars). When we're networked we use Line messaging.

My wife's boss communicates with all her employees by SMS (mass SMS - works like group communication, both ways).

AddEdit: Airlines send their notifications and links to boarding passes etc. via SMS. Dentist and doctor appointments, other public office appointments (e.g. my upcoming passport renewal), document notifications (from pension fund insurance companies for example), public warnings ("Toxic fire nearby - close your windows"), and more, are via SMS where I live.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#96

Post by grey_earthling »

agilob wrote: post #69
apexalpha wrote: post #20

I think you're forgetting the main reason: the group of people using it to communicate is really small and shrinking every year. The only large group of people who still primarily use SMS to communicate person-to-person is Android users in the USA. Every other country has settled on either Telegram, WeChat, WhatsApp or FB Messenger, or other niche apps. These apps work on both iOS and Android and often also Windows.…

>The only large group of people who still primarily use SMS to communicate person-to-person is Android users in the USA. BS. I visited city I grew up recently, met with a few (9+) people (25-32 years old) and only one of them had WA, most haven't heard about Signal, everyone simply uses SMS. It's simply multiplatform, works with their gradmas and no one wants to install __another__ app to send messages to people. No…

If you're going to bother migrating and presumably taking people with you, why migrate to another company's proprietary service, rather than an open protocol?

Or (bluntly): why not Matrix (and/or XMPP)? What makes WA so much better that you're willing to go all-in with this company?

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#97

Post by claudedopplr »

cabbagesauce wrote: post #57
microtonal wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that differs very much per country. The last time I have received an SMS from a human in NL must have been a decade ago. In many European countries, sending SMS was quite expensive, leading to early and very wide adoption of WhatsApp.

NL is rather small sample to, say, larger countries like Poland that use SMS quite frequently. And depending on carrier, SMS texting most likely will be completely free with most of the current plans. Signal's rationale is just Signal's own reluctance to build an umbrella messenger. And given they do drop SMS, still won't introduce usernames it's very hard to actually sell it as a WhatsApp replacement. And now, with…

Being such a small operation, I think they're making a great decision by focusing on what matters most. "Most startups die by lack of focus". I very much believe this is their first public step towards breaking up with phone number based identity.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#98

Post by jhugo »

edent wrote: post #66
esskay wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure that can be said as a blanket statement for the whole of Europe. In the UK SMS isn't common at all anymore.

Not common isn't quite right. Ofcom's report shows that SMS use is shrinking, but it is still an average of 51 messages per user per month. Source https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/222401/... SMS decline is probably inevitable though.

That seems really high based on my UK experience. The link says "the average mobile connection sent 51 messages per month". What does it mean for a "connection" to send messages? Could that include messages sent to the user? If so, this number would make sense (OTPs and spam).

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#99

Post by yoghurt »

izacus wrote: post #63
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Dutch person, I'm still amazed that the US still seems to use SMS as much; mind you, our phone plans here were "you get 1000 text messages and X minutes or a bajillion megabytes of data"; that + 'free' international messaging / calls with services like Whatsapp quickly pushed people to data-only messaging like Whatsapp or maybe FB Messenger. We also have a big immigrant population that like to chat with their fa…

Why are you people always so proud of having all your communication owned by Meta? With Meta dictating which phones you can use to communicate with others?

Where are you getting the idea from that "we" are proud of our communication being controlled by a commercial party? I'm pretty sure most people are not proud, but either poorly informed or not willing to make the trade off for more security while losing half their social network.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#100

Post by jhugo »

darrenf wrote: post #71
IshKebab wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which countries? It has zero use in the UK (apart from for stuff like parcel deliveries and 2FA). We're 100% WhatsApp.

It's down from the peak, but 40 billion SMSes were sent in the UK in 2021. I would be staggered if this number was majority B2C/2FA. https://www.statista.com/statistics/271561/number-of-sent-sm...

I would be staggered if it wasn't majority spam, OTPs, and automated reminders.
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