I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal • Hacker News Board

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#81

Post by benj111 » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 9:40 AM UTC

joel35 wrote: post #21

With Signal moving away from SMS, the required messaging app stack on my phone just to be able to receive everything sent do me will have to be: - Signal -> Close friends & family I've convinced to use it. - WhatsApp -> Most of my friends. - SMS -> School notifications, 2FA, shipping updates, etc. - Facebook Messenger -> Elderly relatives - Telegram -> That one relative who wants to use this instead of Signal. Is the…

I don't think that would work, because then they'd just introduce their own messaging standard.

https://xkcd.com/927/

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#82

Post by Gasp0de » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 9:41 AM UTC

cabbagesauce wrote: post #57

microtonal wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that differs very much per country. The last time I have received an SMS from a human in NL must have been a decade ago. In many European countries, sending SMS was quite expensive, leading to early and very wide adoption of WhatsApp.

NL is rather small sample to, say, larger countries like Poland that use SMS quite frequently. And depending on carrier, SMS texting most likely will be completely free with most of the current plans. Signal's rationale is just Signal's own reluctance to build an umbrella messenger. And given they do drop SMS, still won't introduce usernames it's very hard to actually sell it as a WhatsApp replacement. And now, with…

Enlighten me please, how can you register with a username and without a phone number in WhatsApp?

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#83

Post by Altho » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 9:41 AM UTC

microtonal wrote: post #28

modo_mario wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SMS is still rather common here in Europe. Even if a ton of people use whatsapp and such SMS is often a safe option to initiate with or something trough which you get certain kinds of automated messages like appointment reminders or verification codes.

I think that differs very much per country. The last time I have received an SMS from a human in NL must have been a decade ago. In many European countries, sending SMS was quite expensive, leading to early and very wide adoption of WhatsApp.

Most European countries have had unlimited SMS way before messaging apps where a thing

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#84

Post by grey_earthling » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 9:42 AM UTC

girvo wrote: post #5

foepys wrote: post #2

Turning RCS into their own private messaging platform on Android has to be peak Google. They tried to make a bazillion messenger apps, all of which failed, and now they try to piggyback on an existing standardized protocol but don't expose any APIs for other apps.

> Turning RCS into their own private messaging platform on Android has to be peak Google. While at the same time pushing this "Apple is bad because green bubble" narrative because Apple doesn't support it. It's somewhat amusing in some ways. Companies (Google or Apple) are never on the consumers side, and yet we fall for it all the time.

> Companies (Google or Apple) are never on the consumers side, and yet we fall for it all the time.

It genuinely surprises me how often the HN crowd falls for it.

I would have expected them to be more aware than the average consumer of how tech companies use lock-in to trap their users.

Perhaps there's a blind spot because lots of HN folks work on projects or for companies that (hope to) use the same tactic?

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#85

Post by Gasp0de » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 9:43 AM UTC

KingOfCoders wrote: post #60

apexalpha wrote: post #20

I think you're forgetting the main reason: the group of people using it to communicate is really small and shrinking every year. The only large group of people who still primarily use SMS to communicate person-to-person is Android users in the USA. Every other country has settled on either Telegram, WeChat, WhatsApp or FB Messenger, or other niche apps. These apps work on both iOS and Android and often also Windows.…

I'm on a prepaid plan. I had the maximum plan (unlimited data, unlimited voice) for two decades but with home office, I spend most time indoors so I've switched to a Some months my data volume doesn't last till the end of the month. I use SMS instead of the Signal protocol then. Yes I might be a minority, but if you're not the market leader, cutting out minority groups of users will not make you more successful. What…

Your data is completely switched off when you run out? In Europe it would be illegal to market this tariff as a "flatrate" and typically data plans are just reduced in bandwidth once your volume is used up.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#86

Post by shp0ngle » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 9:44 AM UTC

agilob wrote: post #69

apexalpha wrote: post #20

I think you're forgetting the main reason: the group of people using it to communicate is really small and shrinking every year. The only large group of people who still primarily use SMS to communicate person-to-person is Android users in the USA. Every other country has settled on either Telegram, WeChat, WhatsApp or FB Messenger, or other niche apps. These apps work on both iOS and Android and often also Windows.…

>The only large group of people who still primarily use SMS to communicate person-to-person is Android users in the USA. BS. I visited city I grew up recently, met with a few (9+) people (25-32 years old) and only one of them had WA, most haven't heard about Signal, everyone simply uses SMS. It's simply multiplatform, works with their gradmas and no one wants to install __another__ app to send messages to people. No…

but… WA also doesn’t have SMS support?

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#87

Post by mixcocam » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 9:45 AM UTC

I agree with all the points mentioned. I hope this accelerates the development of signal - especially on desktop where there is still no integrated video player!!

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#88

Post by wongarsu » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 9:45 AM UTC

polskibus wrote: post #39

microtonal wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that differs very much per country. The last time I have received an SMS from a human in NL must have been a decade ago. In many European countries, sending SMS was quite expensive, leading to early and very wide adoption of WhatsApp.

That was ages ago. Most people have unlimited text messages these days (SMS, not MMS).

Yes, but the point is that in some countries this happened so late that everyone already switched to Whatsapp before SMS became effectively free. And once everyone is on Whatsapp there's no point in switching back to SMS.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#89

Post by KingOfCoders » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 9:46 AM UTC

Gasp0de wrote: post #85

KingOfCoders wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on a prepaid plan. I had the maximum plan (unlimited data, unlimited voice) for two decades but with home office, I spend most time indoors so I've switched to a Some months my data volume doesn't last till the end of the month. I use SMS instead of the Signal protocol then. Yes I might be a minority, but if you're not the market leader, cutting out minority groups of users will not make you more successful. What…

Your data is completely switched off when you run out? In Europe it would be illegal to market this tariff as a "flatrate" and typically data plans are just reduced in bandwidth once your volume is used up.

No, but it's very unreliable and Signal doesn't work (Germany, Deutsche Telekom, Android, Mi 11 Ultra).

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#90

Post by Aissen » Wed, Oct 19, 2022, 9:47 AM UTC

This was posted in the Signal discourse on the same day of the announcement (and linked deep in 630+ comments of the HN post), and I'm glad it's reposted here because it paints a very different picture than the previous blog post.

The hidden gem is that basically Google is taking over control of RCS, and by proxy "text messages". There will only be one Android implementation, and it's Android Messages. It (finally) comes with E2EE messages with something resembling the Signal protocol, but you lose the possibility of writing a custom UX for that, as was possible since Android 1.0. It's particularly ironic during Google's campaign pushing Apple to support RCS.