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I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

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Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#61

Post by edent »

edent wrote: post #19
rjzzleep wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem is Signal people had really odd visions how to make basic functionality work. This isn't really because SMS/MMS are bad(yes they are). But there are threads in their issue tracker where Signal people would disagree with basically functionality of responding to text messages on dual sim devices. "We'll always use the Signal registered number as default". One part of this is a terrible(but working) protocol, th…

Agreed. I remember when - years ago - they unilaterally switched all Android devices to use the Apple emoji. No consultation, no investigation with users, no reason other than they wanted consistency across their apps. Took a lot of grumpy users before they backtracked. I use and like Signal. I'm not smart enough to disagree with some of their technical decisions, but I wish they could have found a way to make SMS/RC…

Just to add some citations.

You can see various threads where people complained about the forced Apple emoji e.g. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/3712 and https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Android/issues/3675

Signal's own FAQ says

> Signal Android includes built-in emoji functionality for consistency between platforms

https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360017561992-Wh...

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#62

Post by climb_stealth »

Thanks for mentioning it!

My initial response on it being announced in the Signal app was "Oh no, that's terrible!". Followed by "Meh, all software goes to shit eventually. Now it's Signal's turn". Now I already don't really care anymore.

I have been using Silence [0] as my sms app for a day and don't really miss the Signal sms integration anymore.

What bugs me more is that the text message export from Signal seems incomplete. Oh well, I will get over that as well.

[0] https://silence.im/

(Funnily enough Silence is a fork of Signal for SMS only. I thought it looked quite familiar but just realised it is the case)

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#63

Post by izacus »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #17
edent wrote: post #9

SMS was, in my opinion, the killer feature for Signal. Telling people to install yet-another-inbox which was only going to be used by their one privacy-weirdo friend was a non-starter. Saying "this is a better SMS app" got people on-board and let them "upgrade" to secure messaging. That's why I started using it in the "TextSecure" days. But, sadly, I agree with Signal's reasoning here. Mixing the two protocols was an…

As a Dutch person, I'm still amazed that the US still seems to use SMS as much; mind you, our phone plans here were "you get 1000 text messages and X minutes or a bajillion megabytes of data"; that + 'free' international messaging / calls with services like Whatsapp quickly pushed people to data-only messaging like Whatsapp or maybe FB Messenger. We also have a big immigrant population that like to chat with their fa…

Why are you people always so proud of having all your communication owned by Meta? With Meta dictating which phones you can use to communicate with others?

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#64

Post by izacus »

rjzzleep wrote: post #13
edent wrote: post #9

SMS was, in my opinion, the killer feature for Signal. Telling people to install yet-another-inbox which was only going to be used by their one privacy-weirdo friend was a non-starter. Saying "this is a better SMS app" got people on-board and let them "upgrade" to secure messaging. That's why I started using it in the "TextSecure" days. But, sadly, I agree with Signal's reasoning here. Mixing the two protocols was an…

Problem is Signal people had really odd visions how to make basic functionality work. This isn't really because SMS/MMS are bad(yes they are). But there are threads in their issue tracker where Signal people would disagree with basically functionality of responding to text messages on dual sim devices. "We'll always use the Signal registered number as default". One part of this is a terrible(but working) protocol, th…

Yeah, I've hit this interesting attitude from Signal developers when I noticed they hijack the SMS datastore which then becomes inaccessible to tools like SMS Backup & Restore and tools that forward SMS notifications to other devices.

The developers were adamant that they know better than me what I want from my SMS tool. And then proceeded to work on crypto and stories.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#65

Post by NayamAmarshe »

jbverschoor wrote: post #30
joel35 wrote: post #21

With Signal moving away from SMS, the required messaging app stack on my phone just to be able to receive everything sent do me will have to be: - Signal -> Close friends & family I've convinced to use it. - WhatsApp -> Most of my friends. - SMS -> School notifications, 2FA, shipping updates, etc. - Facebook Messenger -> Elderly relatives - Telegram -> That one relative who wants to use this instead of Signal. Is the…

I never understood Telegram. It's insecure by default, runs in a different jurisdiction. It's not even anonymous But somehow people started using it because it was "more secure" than whatsapp.

> It's insecure by default

Any proof? If you're calling MTProto 2.0 'insecure' then you should know it's already been audited multiple times in the last 2 years. If insecure means not using E2EE, then I guess the whole infrastructure of the internet is insecure.

> It's not even anonymous

It's more anonymous than Signal is. It requires phone number to register but you don't need to share a phone number or any personal detail to communicate with people.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#66

Post by edent »

esskay wrote: post #31
modo_mario wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SMS is still rather common here in Europe. Even if a ton of people use whatsapp and such SMS is often a safe option to initiate with or something trough which you get certain kinds of automated messages like appointment reminders or verification codes.

Not sure that can be said as a blanket statement for the whole of Europe. In the UK SMS isn't common at all anymore.

Not common isn't quite right. Ofcom's report shows that SMS use is shrinking, but it is still an average of 51 messages per user per month.

Source https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/222401/...

SMS decline is probably inevitable though.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#67

Post by izacus »

joel35 wrote: post #21

With Signal moving away from SMS, the required messaging app stack on my phone just to be able to receive everything sent do me will have to be: - Signal -> Close friends & family I've convinced to use it. - WhatsApp -> Most of my friends. - SMS -> School notifications, 2FA, shipping updates, etc. - Facebook Messenger -> Elderly relatives - Telegram -> That one relative who wants to use this instead of Signal. Is the…

No, there isn't any, because outside Telegram and SMS, none of those apps really support any APIs or 3rd party clients.

Signal team is also actively hostile to any 3rd party client usage of their service.

And that's always cheered on this website - just remember the RCS topics where people were making fun of attempts to add some basic standardisation to this mess.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#69

Post by agilob »

apexalpha wrote: post #20

I think you're forgetting the main reason: the group of people using it to communicate is really small and shrinking every year. The only large group of people who still primarily use SMS to communicate person-to-person is Android users in the USA. Every other country has settled on either Telegram, WeChat, WhatsApp or FB Messenger, or other niche apps. These apps work on both iOS and Android and often also Windows.…

>The only large group of people who still primarily use SMS to communicate person-to-person is Android users in the USA.

BS. I visited city I grew up recently, met with a few (9+) people (25-32 years old) and only one of them had WA, most haven't heard about Signal, everyone simply uses SMS. It's simply multiplatform, works with their gradmas and no one wants to install __another__ app to send messages to people. No one cases about RCS that will be used to push QR codes and ads, people will use SMS for its simplicity and reliability. I'll be dropping Signal and moving to WA once Signal drops SMS support.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#70

Post by lotsofcows »

IshKebab wrote: post #32
modo_mario wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SMS is still rather common here in Europe. Even if a ton of people use whatsapp and such SMS is often a safe option to initiate with or something trough which you get certain kinds of automated messages like appointment reminders or verification codes.

Which countries? It has zero use in the UK (apart from for stuff like parcel deliveries and 2FA). We're 100% WhatsApp.

2FA, NHS, gov.uk reminders, a large %age of my social group...

WhatsApp is a closed protocol owned by Facebook. It has its uses but relying on it is a mistake.

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