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I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#11

Post by rjzzleep »

girvo wrote: post #5
foepys wrote: post #2

Turning RCS into their own private messaging platform on Android has to be peak Google. They tried to make a bazillion messenger apps, all of which failed, and now they try to piggyback on an existing standardized protocol but don't expose any APIs for other apps.

> Turning RCS into their own private messaging platform on Android has to be peak Google. While at the same time pushing this "Apple is bad because green bubble" narrative because Apple doesn't support it. It's somewhat amusing in some ways. Companies (Google or Apple) are never on the consumers side, and yet we fall for it all the time.

> and yet we fall for it all the time

Really? Do "we"? Everyone keeps warning of these issues while getting laughed out of the room. At some point I have to believe that most of society actually actively wants to be screwed over.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#12

Post by ryanjshaw »

SMS integration is a lost opportunity in so many ways.

I wanted a no-code solution to push my bank-sent SMSs into a real-time transaction database. Apparently this is impossible on iOS, and on Android it's incredibly unreliable (IFTTT & Tasker keep getting shut down by the OS). Fortunately, before writing my own solution, I found messages.google.com/web. I have to scrape this, but that's simpler than maintaining an Android app.

Somehow, it's 2022 and if I want real-time banking information I have to write code to consume SMSs OR hand my banking credentials over to a third party to scrape my bank statements.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#13

Post by rjzzleep »

edent wrote: post #9

SMS was, in my opinion, the killer feature for Signal. Telling people to install yet-another-inbox which was only going to be used by their one privacy-weirdo friend was a non-starter. Saying "this is a better SMS app" got people on-board and let them "upgrade" to secure messaging. That's why I started using it in the "TextSecure" days. But, sadly, I agree with Signal's reasoning here. Mixing the two protocols was an…

Problem is Signal people had really odd visions how to make basic functionality work. This isn't really because SMS/MMS are bad(yes they are).

But there are threads in their issue tracker where Signal people would disagree with basically functionality of responding to text messages on dual sim devices. "We'll always use the Signal registered number as default".

One part of this is a terrible(but working) protocol, the other is really weird product management where basic needs of the consumer are brushed aside with a "I know best approach" that doesn't really work when you're not in the shoes of apple and have the ability to just replace SMS altogether.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#14

Post by raverbashing »

girvo wrote: post #5
foepys wrote: post #2

Turning RCS into their own private messaging platform on Android has to be peak Google. They tried to make a bazillion messenger apps, all of which failed, and now they try to piggyback on an existing standardized protocol but don't expose any APIs for other apps.

> Turning RCS into their own private messaging platform on Android has to be peak Google. While at the same time pushing this "Apple is bad because green bubble" narrative because Apple doesn't support it. It's somewhat amusing in some ways. Companies (Google or Apple) are never on the consumers side, and yet we fall for it all the time.

And for real, who cares about a green bubble? Seems to be the epitome of pettiness

If you need to actually send files etc use another one of a multitude of messaging apps out there including the latest Google TalkMsgChatThing (but it works)

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#16

Post by [deleted] »

foepys wrote: post #2

Turning RCS into their own private messaging platform on Android has to be peak Google. They tried to make a bazillion messenger apps, all of which failed, and now they try to piggyback on an existing standardized protocol but don't expose any APIs for other apps.

[deleted]

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#17

Post by Cthulhu_ »

edent wrote: post #9

SMS was, in my opinion, the killer feature for Signal. Telling people to install yet-another-inbox which was only going to be used by their one privacy-weirdo friend was a non-starter. Saying "this is a better SMS app" got people on-board and let them "upgrade" to secure messaging. That's why I started using it in the "TextSecure" days. But, sadly, I agree with Signal's reasoning here. Mixing the two protocols was an…

As a Dutch person, I'm still amazed that the US still seems to use SMS as much; mind you, our phone plans here were "you get 1000 text messages and X minutes or a bajillion megabytes of data"; that + 'free' international messaging / calls with services like Whatsapp quickly pushed people to data-only messaging like Whatsapp or maybe FB Messenger. We also have a big immigrant population that like to chat with their family wherever they may live, and international calls / text messages are stupid expensive.

I can imagine that's less of an issue in the US; do you pay extra for text messages and calls that go across state lines?

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#18

Post by Cthulhu_ »

bestouff wrote: post #6

That should have been written into the blog post. Not the current tasteless PR.

This is genuine; the PR messages are for businesses and shareholders; especially for publically traded companies, they have to be Very Careful with what they say in public.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#19

Post by edent »

rjzzleep wrote: post #13
edent wrote: post #9

SMS was, in my opinion, the killer feature for Signal. Telling people to install yet-another-inbox which was only going to be used by their one privacy-weirdo friend was a non-starter. Saying "this is a better SMS app" got people on-board and let them "upgrade" to secure messaging. That's why I started using it in the "TextSecure" days. But, sadly, I agree with Signal's reasoning here. Mixing the two protocols was an…

Problem is Signal people had really odd visions how to make basic functionality work. This isn't really because SMS/MMS are bad(yes they are). But there are threads in their issue tracker where Signal people would disagree with basically functionality of responding to text messages on dual sim devices. "We'll always use the Signal registered number as default". One part of this is a terrible(but working) protocol, th…

Agreed. I remember when - years ago - they unilaterally switched all Android devices to use the Apple emoji. No consultation, no investigation with users, no reason other than they wanted consistency across their apps.

Took a lot of grumpy users before they backtracked.

I use and like Signal. I'm not smart enough to disagree with some of their technical decisions, but I wish they could have found a way to make SMS/RCS work.

Re: I asked Signal motivations for SMS removal

#20

Post by apexalpha »

I think you're forgetting the main reason: the group of people using it to communicate is really small and shrinking every year.

The only large group of people who still primarily use SMS to communicate person-to-person is Android users in the USA.

Every other country has settled on either Telegram, WeChat, WhatsApp or FB Messenger, or other niche apps. These apps work on both iOS and Android and often also Windows. I haven't sent an SMS in probably 12 years. I don't know anyone who has.

It's only in the US that iMessage is so prevalent that Android users have to use SMS, the only other way of messaging iOS devices. And the US is quickly becoming a de-facto iOS only country. It already has more than 50% market share, even 80% among young people.

With the US going (almost) full iMessage and the rest of the world having already settled on another app there simply no point to supporting SMS.

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