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Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

blog.mozilla.org

251–260 of 321 posts

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Has any non-ad driven piece of software ever used this inorganic growth hack? Admittedly, it has been a long long time since I've suffered using an OS burdened with this kind of malady, but it was definitely where I learned about how apps are not as "free" as one might be led to believe. It was these types of apps and the damn browser toolbar installs that were dark-UI/hidden installed when installing a completely di…

I don't know who has or has not used that approach, but if you're going to say "Chrome is popular because it did these things" I'm going to wonder why Mozilla didn't do those things. I remember the first time I downloaded Chrome was because I got some item in Runescape for doing that. Why didn't Mozilla do that? Mozilla has hundreds of millions of dollars at minimum , very likely billions. It's absurd that they're fa…

>I'm going to wonder why Mozilla didn't do those things.

Self respect?

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#252

I am extremely surprised by all the negative Firefox sentiment here. I switched from Chrome as soon as manifest v3 was announced and I have been almost completely happy with it. In all the ways I'm unhappy with it, chrome is even worse.

I don't know how anyone browses the modern web without ublock origin. I don't even go on websites on my iphone anymore because they are unusable with the banner ads, the footer ads, the autoplay videos, and trying to gleam information from 1 inch worth of text on my phone. I blow through my datacap in no time. Like why did we make these phone screens so big, just to fit more ads?

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#253

I am extremely surprised by all the negative Firefox sentiment here. I switched from Chrome as soon as manifest v3 was announced and I have been almost completely happy with it. In all the ways I'm unhappy with it, chrome is even worse.

Whenever all the negative comments come up I mostly just assume there is a silent majority that continues to be happy with Firefox and doesn't say anything. I've been using it for years with basically 0 issues. And I'm not using it to "stick it to Google" either. Containers and tree-style tabs are a huge productivity win.

I love treestyle tabs and being able to autohide it until I mouse over, but I can't get containers to ever work as expected. I would expect when I click a link to e.g. ebay it would open in my ebay container in a new tab, and when I google something it puts me in a google container, and when I click a reddit link it puts me into the reddit container. Instead I am often still in the ebay container. Temporary containers are even worse with this, I would think opening up a new link to a different domain would put me into a new temporary container, but I am still in tmp7 or whatever the numbers have marched up to. I have regressed to just facebook container because its simpler to deal with just one container and associated issues.

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know who has or has not used that approach, but if you're going to say "Chrome is popular because it did these things" I'm going to wonder why Mozilla didn't do those things. I remember the first time I downloaded Chrome was because I got some item in Runescape for doing that. Why didn't Mozilla do that? Mozilla has hundreds of millions of dollars at minimum , very likely billions. It's absurd that they're fa…

>I'm going to wonder why Mozilla didn't do those things. Self respect?

Is that Mozilla's mission? Self respect? I thought it was a more open web.

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe Chromium pings any less than Firefox. Would love to get more info on this.

Believe it. Firefox is kind of unbeaten in this regard. There was a study carried out on what kinds of data leaks on browsers during launch [0] but Chromium specifically wasn't measured. I can only infer Safe browsing to be a leak point available on Chromium since it is shipped by default but I have it turned off (never needed it anyway) so I have not observed any pings related to it personally. [0] https://www.scss.…

SafeBrowsing V2 only sends a partial hash to Google, only sending the full hash if the partial has a match. You can just read Chromium's whitepaper on their various features if you want to understand the privacy implications.

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#256
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe Chromium pings any less than Firefox. Would love to get more info on this.

Here you go: https://twitter.com/jonathansampson/status/11658588961766604... > What I found were dozens of requests, which loaded nearly 16 MB in data. Lets break down what I saw. > I also reviewed Google Chrome, for those interested: When I launched Google Chrome for the first time (and let it sit for a minute), 32 requests were made, and 7.26 MB of data downloaded. Presumably Chromium would ping even less than Goog…

Raw numbers mean nothing. Lots of these requests are totally benign.

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#257
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Burden of proof is not on the user. Burden is on Mozilla (and any browser vendor with telemetry ON by default) to prove that: 1) They are not misusing collected information in any way 2) They need it so badly that telemetry is ON by default, without the explicit consent of the user Both of these are simply addressed by having no telemetry by default and all browser telemetry being completely opt-in. Given that IP add…

I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but I disagree. Telemetry is a bit like DRM. Firefox strenuously avoided DRM for a long time, losing a lot of market share in the process, until it became clear that it could not stay relevant without being able to display DRM video. The pragmatic decision was either to (1) stay pure, forbid DRM, and disappear; or (2) give in and support DRM, accept that the battle was lost, and…

I appreciate your pesonal perspective as an employee of the company I used to admire a lot. It looks like we disagree on the fundamental premise

To me, the golden age of tracking is over and the privacy of the user is the new gold standard. It doesn't matter that Firefox needs telemetry to survive (and the empirical evidence of Firefox still losing users left and right does not help that case), if it is going to violate someone's privacy over it.

It also does not matter what its privacy policy is (and they can change), the moment Firefox transferred user's personal information, which is the IP address, without their consent, it took away something private from them, that can potentially be used in the future against them.

Here is an analogy. Would you accept telemetry in your apartment or a house, that is built-in and enabled by default, without your consent? Would you freak out that it exists once you find out?

The builder will then try to explain they use it only to improve homes they make, for example to understand what rooms you use and how, and that without it, they would not survive on the market because their main competitors are using it too. Would you care about that or you would seek to find an apartment elsewhere?

The browser is no different. It is the most intimate tool we use in our daily lives. People are fed of our data being used without our consent.

A privacy respecting browser simply can not allow itself to have telemetry by default. Meaning Firefox simply can not call itself privacy respecting if it is transferring user's private information without their consent, by default - no matter what the economic or business justification are. If a browser is choosing to have telemetry for economic interest, it loses the privilege to call itself privacy-respecting or 'a force for the privacy on the web'. Respecting privacy is digital, it is either 0 or 1, you can't be 0.7 privacy-respecting.

Finally, I don't buy the argument that telemetry is helping FIrefox at all. All that telemetry for the last 10 years or so and Firefox is down to less than 5% market share. It lost 50 million users in the last two years alone.

Perhaps Mozilla should consider becoming more user-centric instead and start listening to the users, instead of using telemetry. Go back to its roots of innovation and experiments, to the golden age of Firefox between 2005-2010 when we got Firebug, Ubiquity, Panorama and go back to product annoncements that excite user about the browser.

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "privacy" provided by so-called private browsing mode is just a smokescreen And to add insult to injury, browsing artifacts are sometimes remembered in Windows' pagefile and other parts of the OS. Even on Linux, if your distro cares to add stuff to swap, it will dump browsing sessions in plaintext to your hard-drive, incognito/private mode or not. This is why people need to use TailsOS[0] if they're really conc…

That's not really on the application, though; "the OS can write your RAM to disk" is outside of Firefox's control.

Actually I have to add caveats to that. It looks like you could tell the OS not to swap your RAM using mlock/mlockall, but with significant caveats around overcommit that are a little over my head but which I suspect would be painful for a modern web browser to try and operate with.

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#259
post #11

>[...]Firefox Colorways, a new desktop feature that allowed our users to express their most authentic selves[...] I'd like to express myself and say that I just want a secure and privacy-respecting browser that gets its priorities straight.

That is honestly brave.

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#260

Mozilla & Firefox stop trying to be a god-damned social movement. Just be a fucking browser.

Why do people get so worked up about messaging that isn't targeted at them? Mozilla is trying to gain broad appeal beyond mom's basement. There's a certain group of people that this message resonates with.

And its failing at both.
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