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Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

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Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#221

Post by bornfreddy »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #110

Let me guess, your boss tried to force you into a lead / staff / management role? Same thing happened to me. As I've gotten older management has been been more insistent on me taking a 'leadership' role. What they don't tell you is this is 2x the work (and the sort of work you hate the most) for ~ 10% more pay. 10% is the carrot. The stick is that they start telling you you're 'top of band' for a sr dev and that they…

Only 10%? The difference is much bigger in my experience. But yes, it's a different skillset and you need to work on honing it.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#223

Post by malfist »

P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #186
malfist wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sure showed them! I bet that advance auto manager thought real hard about asking anybody else to....sweep. I'm glad you realized your hands were too important to be callused by a broom

seriously, while I understand and agree with the sentiment in general, you're a clerk at a small store, sweeping the parking lot doesn't seem outside of your duties.

Right? What was advanced auto supposed to do? Hire a person specifically for cleaning the parking lot?

There's a reason job postings all say "And other duties as assigned"

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#224

Post by datavirtue »

ajkjk wrote: post #179
tomtheelder wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd have told him that what he was doing was very inappropriate (without buy-in from the team), and if he doesn't back off I'll quit. The reason not to do this is that you're very likely to provoke a defensive response and have the other person dig in their heels. A gentler approach is more likely to get results, less likely to create tension in the relationship, and sets the tone of future decision making as adver…

Well the magnitude of your response should be calibrated to the magnitude of the grievance. A new boss coming in and changing everything in a way nobody signed up for or is on board with is very egregious, and I _will_ quit if they don't back down, so I'm going to tell them that. It's a statement of fact. If they don't stop, and I quit, and I didn't say that ahead of time, then I haven't communicated what I meant to.

I find it much more satisfying to smile and nod and then leave unexpectedly without notice.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#225

Post by fshbbdssbbgdd »

blululu wrote: post #63
buscoquadnary wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This right here. I realized long ago I should do whatever I can to the best of my ability. If my superiors want to do something stupid or use my skillet in a suboptimal way my responsibility is to do my best to council with them, share what I see and then do the best job I can at whatever I am assigned to, assuming over course it doesn't cross legal or moral boundaries. My job is not my Identity we have an economic a…

You know who is going to be the first one fired and the last one promoted? The SWE who is being asked to do some bogus tasks that aren't even close to what they are capable of. In many cases you are in one way or another obligated to act as you suggest, but it is not always good for you personally and simply pretending that you aren't getting screwed is pretty naive. You often don't really have much of a choice in th…

The key distinction is between things that anyone could do (and you are asked to do them because you are the least productive) and things that nobody knows how to do (and you are asked to do them because you are the most capable to figure it out).

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#226

Post by P5fRxh5kUvp2th »

mindcrime wrote: post #205
P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seriously, while I understand and agree with the sentiment in general, you're a clerk at a small store, sweeping the parking lot doesn't seem outside of your duties.

But it doesn't matter what you think my duties are. And it didn't matter what my manager thought my duties were. It mattered what I thought they were. And on that day, considering the circumstances (some shit job I'm working for barely more than minimum wage as I work my way through college) I chose to decide that sweeping the parking lot was not an acceptable duty. Maybe I would have chosen differently if I'd desper…

I'm sure you're a hoot to work with, but personally I'd rather be around people who have the humbleness to avoid thinking sweeping a parking lot was beneath them.

If you can't take pride in a job well done as a store clerk, why the hell does anyone think you'll take pride in a job well done as a developer? That motivation is internal.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#227

Post by tstrimple »

neon_electro wrote: post #162
Gareth321 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally I think the concept of growth is a scam to get people to work harder for less. I've certainly seen this employed as a way to argue against wage increases. "If we're going to pay you 15% more, how are you going to add 15% more value?" Sadly this rhetoric often works on people because it sounds so obviously intuitive at first. Thing is, jobs can become more valuable even if they're exactly the same, and th…

>"If we're going to pay you 15% more, how are you going to add 15% more value?" This quote assumes that the employer refuses to acknowledge the employee adds more value than what their compensation represents. I'm always of the mind that my value to my employer is 1.5-2x what I'm actually getting paid, at the low end . Asking for more money is simply trying to better negotiate the way I'm compensated for the value I'…

This is why it's important for folks to understand exactly what they are contributing to a company's bottom line. This is easier for sales roles where they can point to closed deals, but more difficult for IT roles who's job is to keep the lights on.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#228

Post by 121789 »

ldjkfkdsjnv wrote: post #17

Personally I think the concept of growth is a scam to get people to work harder for less. You can certainly grow your skill set, but intelligent people can rise to the occasion in most jobs. Including CEO/Director/High level decision making jobs. Everytime I have received some insultingly low offer from a startup, they start talking about "growth", "what I can own", "wearing many hats". Meanwhile, the founder is sitt…

They are not necessarily wrong. The most straightforward way to grow into the role you want (e.g. a manager) is to get direct experience doing the job. For example, if you wanted to get a manager role at a FAANG-type of company, you could:

1. Get a role as a junior developer at a FAANG, get 2+ promotions, hope your team has enough scope and resources to let you try out manager duties

2. Get a role as a junior developer at a growing company, be quickly forced into manager duties, then transfer into FAANG

True, some places will use this to their advantage to underpay you, but you should be aware of it as a tool in your career.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#229

Post by RobRivera »

mindcrime wrote: post #205
P5fRxh5kUvp2th wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seriously, while I understand and agree with the sentiment in general, you're a clerk at a small store, sweeping the parking lot doesn't seem outside of your duties.

But it doesn't matter what you think my duties are. And it didn't matter what my manager thought my duties were. It mattered what I thought they were. And on that day, considering the circumstances (some shit job I'm working for barely more than minimum wage as I work my way through college) I chose to decide that sweeping the parking lot was not an acceptable duty. Maybe I would have chosen differently if I'd desper…

I'm getting the impression many are not entering into good faith discussion on understanding your perspective and attempting to not only invalidate your experience, but to also cast judgement.

Re: Tell HN: Beware 'Ungrowth' in Your Job

#230

Post by RobRivera »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #113
buscoquadnary wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This right here. I realized long ago I should do whatever I can to the best of my ability. If my superiors want to do something stupid or use my skillet in a suboptimal way my responsibility is to do my best to council with them, share what I see and then do the best job I can at whatever I am assigned to, assuming over course it doesn't cross legal or moral boundaries. My job is not my Identity we have an economic a…

Some of my experiences align with that. You want me to spend time doing relatively useless things. I can. I am paid regardless. I am just not sure it is a good management or resources. I do my best to communicate openly with my immediate superior about the reality on the ground, but if my advice is summarily dismissed, at certain point I just check out.

a superior alternative to checking out is to work on things you deem both interesting and under the auspice of personal development and skills currency
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