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Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#221
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please describe a theoretical attack on your privacy by Mozilla learning that your IP address launched a Firefox instance?

Burden of proof is not on the user. Burden is on Mozilla (and any browser vendor with telemetry ON by default) to prove that: 1) They are not misusing collected information in any way 2) They need it so badly that telemetry is ON by default, without the explicit consent of the user Both of these are simply addressed by having no telemetry by default and all browser telemetry being completely opt-in. Given that IP add…

I'm sympathetic to your point of view, but I disagree.

Telemetry is a bit like DRM. Firefox strenuously avoided DRM for a long time, losing a lot of market share in the process, until it became clear that it could not stay relevant without being able to display DRM video. The pragmatic decision was either to (1) stay pure, forbid DRM, and disappear; or (2) give in and support DRM, accept that the battle was lost, and continue to survive in order to influence the battles that had not yet been lost.

The same could be said for telemetry, though it has less impact in either direction (it causes less harm, and not having it is less of an existential threat). And we (I work for Mozilla) did resist it for a long time, longer than was probably healthy for the market share, and eventually gave in. At least with telemetry it could be a somewhat principled capitulation—we are much more careful about avoiding tying together different measures that could be correlated to identify users, and we have a strict approval process when adding new telemetry (I've gone through it several times).

Telemetry is sadly necessary to stay competitive in today's landscape. For example, speed is the #1 reason that people report for switching browsers. Relying on either benchmarks or user reports for performance tuning simply isn't good enough. The signal is slow and massively lossy. We need to know what our actual users are experiencing, and whether a change had a positive impact on real-world usage or not. It's easy to come up with a change that improves benchmarks, at least a little. It's much harder to move the needle on what our users are experiencing. Without telemetry, we would make lots of changes that would overfit for benchmark behavior, adding complexity and producing very little benefit.

The other important piece: opt-in telemetry isn't telemetry. The sampling bias results in massive distortion. Being able to say "this change improves performance *for users who have opted in to telemetry*" is mostly useless. Users who opt in are going to have wildly different hardware, on average.

Opt out is much less problematic, even though it also introduces sampling bias, because in practice not that many people bother to opt out. It's definitely reasonable to argue that the opt out mechanisms should be simpler and more clear.

Though at the end of the day, it's much more important that we collect telemetry in a way that does not compromise the privacy of people who don't opt out, and (imho) we're doing pretty well there. https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/ gives a decent high-level overview. https://wiki.mozilla.org/Data_Collection gives more of the nitty gritty detail than you'd probably want.

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#222
post #9

> Last year we launched Firefox Colorways, a new desktop feature that allowed our users to express their most authentic selves and bring joy while browsing the web > “‘Independent Voices’ are the voices of the past and present that create a better future,” said Keely Alexis. “I chose this [analogy] as my inspiration for the collaboration because it feels authentic to me but it also aligns with Firefox and the vision…

Does anyone remembers when Firefox was called Phoenix and it was born as the lightweight alternative to Mozilla and it was already highly configurable theme wise on basically calculators for today's standards?

https://blog.mozilla.org/community/files/2013/05/2002_phoeni...

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#223
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you please describe a theoretical attack on your privacy by Mozilla learning that your IP address launched a Firefox instance?

Assuming they tag the browser install, that information could be used to track your location history. e.g. if you move from your home network to a store wifi.

From what I understand, Firefox does tag the initial browser install in order to track the marketing channel the install came from, but after the first run it stops sending it. So no, it cannot be correlated with location history. (And if you grab Firefox from https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/new/ it won't have the token.)

You'll have to rely on your phone's OS stalk you by location. ;-)

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#225
I am extremely surprised by all the negative Firefox sentiment here. I switched from Chrome as soon as manifest v3 was announced and I have been almost completely happy with it. In all the ways I'm unhappy with it, chrome is even worse.

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#226
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What about that data is harmful to you? Arguments like these always reminds me of the story where some town had a population register that included religion, and then the Nazis invaded. You don't know how or when the collected data will be misused, whether by the original owner, a malicious third-party breaching their systems, or the government (and even somewhat-stable governments can quickly turn sour, see Russia…

I agree, which is why I asked what data is being collected. If it's like, "a user launched Firefox version 105.0.1 and has Pocket disabled," I've got a tough time caring. Telemetry is genuinely useful information. But if it's like, "a user with IP 123.45 opened MyFavoriteReligion.com and spent 20 minutes at that domain" then it's bad news. So, I'd like to know what's actually being transmitted.

https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox/ answers that question, though admittedly it's not a quick answer that can be easily summarized. It's basically "a user at IP x.y.z.w launched Firefox version 105.0.1 and has Pocket disabled" where the IP is not collected other than in the server logs: "When Firefox sends data to us, your IP address is temporarily collected as part of our server logs."

Actual URLs are treated very carefully. The only ways I know that they could be leaked: (1) there is limited exposure via the SafeBrowsing stuff, and (2) if you crash then URLs could be swept up in the crash report and visible to privileged people at Mozilla. Or if you manually submit a profile and don't anonymize it (there's a checkbox to submit URLs that is checked by default), but you have to go out of your way to do that. There very well could be other ways, but browsing history is treated as very sensitive data for both legal and moral reasons.

Personally, I would not trust Mozilla to be unable to answer the question "has this IP address ever used Firefox?", especially if under subpoena. The IP is temporarily in the server logs, it's used for coarse location information, etc. I doubt anyone is all that interested in asking that question, though.

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#227
They don't have enough resources (developers) to implement "adding websites to desktop and running them in separate windows, as applications" support, yet they are wasting time to re-add "limited edition" themes. Not to mention video conferencing support still lagging behind, although that's not so important anymore, as it was during lockdown.

And still, I'll keep on using Firefox, as other browsers are even in a worse state.

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#228

For anyone else being annoyed that private windows now switch their chrome into dark mode by default, completely rendering black favicons (or the toggle icon of the TreeStyleTabs extension) invisible: You can set browser.theme.dark-private-windows to false. I don't want dark mode, period. Who decided that privacy must equal to dark mode, and that there is no easy switch in settings to turn it off?

> Who decided that privacy must equal to dark mode It's a visual cue to remember what context you are in. I always done that anyway. I have a Pink theme when surfing NSFW sites :)

Out of curiosity, how did you configure it?

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#229
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus, can you just say "we've got themes?" No one is going to remember Firefox as the next MLK Jr because they let you turn the window chrome orange. Meanwhile Firefox Android is still a slow, unstable garbage pile. How many years now since Mozilla began developing exclusively for headline writers instead of their users?

I use FF Android every day, including watching videos, and haven't noticed the "unstable garbage pile". Are you being hyperbolic?

[deleted]

Re: Firefox Private Browsing mode upgrade

#230
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm super cognizant of the /dev/null that is bugzilla, but have you opened an issue about that? My stance is that I don't have influence over whether they ignore me, but I have more righteous indignation if I did, in fact, open a ticket and then they ignored me

The Android Firefox, formerly known as Fenix, has a separate tracker on Github. However I wouldn't say that it's radically divergent in habits—more of a different take on the same problem that Mozilla has very limited resources and its own vision, whereas the hordes of users have thousands of their own wishes. E.g. the Fenix' tracker finally clears out stale bugs, at least occasionally, instead of letting them fermen…

You could also try https://connect.mozilla.org which is the official location for ideas like this (and it sounds like a great idea to me!) There's definitely no guarantee that it won't still be ignored, but at least there's a mechanism for popular ideas to get some attention.
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